| ▲ | mountainriver 2 days ago |
| Except Anthropic has delivered a truly world changing product… |
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| ▲ | patcon 2 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| So did Los Alamos? Edit: don't get me wrong, I'm a happy user. But I'd also be a happy consumer of refined sugar in the early 20th century. I'm still not sure if these tools won't destabilize society to the point of collapse. I don't think we understand the complexity of what's going on nearly enough, and am certainly not optimistic about AI being net good for us |
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| ▲ | 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | mulmen 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | This came up on the Lunch Money livestream yesterday. The entire episode is worth a listen but here's the relevant sections: Krugman: "I've been writing some about downsides of technological change and I realized afterwards that if I really wanted a really stellar example of a productive important innovation that had terrible effects on society would be the cotton gin." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJxQbfbpf7M&t=25m38s Richardson: "I always have a hard time articulating this, but the number of large plantations in which enslavers owned in air quotes, you know, more than 25 or more than 50 other human beings was a very very small proportion of the American South, less than 1%. The majority of people who again owned their black neighbors had one or two enslaved people on their farms. They weren't necessarily called plantations. And they would be working alongside those black Americans. And the cotton gin could have made small farms viable and could have ended human enslavement. And instead what they gave us was, you know, the the Trail of Tears in the 1830s that cleans indigenous Americans out of the southwestern land. You get an extraordinary land rush into the American South in the 1830s and the 1840s. And you get the establishment of these gigantic essentially factory farms. And that's a place where, you know, the majority of southerners, obviously the indigenous southerners and the black southerners, wanted no part of this system, but it actually didn't serve the white farmers either. It served a really small, less than 1% group of American enslavers in the American South. And you look at that and you think that wasn't the technologies fault. That was the fault of the people who um who set up the political system that enabled it to work that way." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJxQbfbpf7M&t=28m18s | | |
| ▲ | RetroTechie 17 hours ago | parent [-] | | "And you look at that and you think that wasn't the technologies fault. That was the fault of the people who um who set up the political system that enabled it to work that way." And that is what the public should focus on. AI in its current state is neither fantastic nor a sure path to doom. It can be a boon to society for sure. But a few individuals leading a few companies that burn 100s of billions of $$ to get the rest of society hooked (and maybe, dependent) on a subscription service, that is a problem. For all I care it would be better if that were government-funded research, and results open source everyting. Tax the people once, society profits forever. The way it works now looks more like an attempt at wealth transfer from the public to a few executives & VC's pockets, using AI as a vehicle. Seems the Chinese are showing the way here? |
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| ▲ | lostaccount 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| World changing in a good way? |
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| ▲ | 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | msikora 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yes, absolutely in a good way | | |
| ▲ | ponco 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | The benefits of modernity (electricity, cars, iPhone, Claude) are good, but they come bundled with potentially terminal ecological costs which is bad. | | |
| ▲ | doublepg23 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Have people (smarter than me) come up with a good equation - or at least heuristic - to determine what inventions are morally good? I suppose it'd be from a utilitarian perspective? Ex: My gut feeling is nitrogen fixing would rank "low" on "terminal ecological impact" against "positive benefits to humanity"; the Vinyl resurgence would be around the middle; private jets for the Epstein class would the highest etc. | | |
| ▲ | ponco 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I was being a bit cheeky, but I’m not really arguing that individual inventions can be determined as good or bad. My point is it comes from the same underlying mode of production. "Claude is useful" and "the way we have organised society that led to its creation may be ecologically catastrophic” can both be true. | |
| ▲ | 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | CamperBob2 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yup. Best unplug your computer. | | |
| ▲ | ponco 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Darn, I tried this and the lithium battery kicked in. |
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| ▲ | ETH_start 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | There are certainly ecological costs, but in the long run, Earth's life will only survive if an advanced species like ours is able to transport it off the planet before the sun expands and boils away the ocean and atmosphere, in approximately 800 million years. | | |
| ▲ | 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | fragmede 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Fortunately, the rockets for that will be helped along with the GPU capacity to run rocket simulations on. GPUs not being used to run LLMs can be used instead for physics simulations to help make those rockets work. | | |
| ▲ | ETH_start 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I'm looking at the second and third order effects of technologies. LLMs massively increase the surplus capacity of human civilization, and it is this surplus capacity enables resources (including human capital) to be expended on developing frontier technologies like rockets that can accelerate the development of space-faring capabilities. |
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| ▲ | davkan 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That remains to be seen. I for one am doubtful that AI as a whole has meaningfully improved the lives of just about anyone besides the few who have gotten rich. Meanwhile many have already lost their jobs as a result, even if AI is just a convenient scapegoat. | |
| ▲ | preisschild 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I disagree. People get dumber because they outsource thinking to fancy autocomplete and I haven't really yet seen work by LLMs that significantly improve the world. | |
| ▲ | tayo42 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | You really think your life is better than 2 years ago because of AI chat bots? If AI went away tomorrow idk if my life would meaningfully change | | |
| ▲ | ToValueFunfetti 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | An AI chatbot diagnosed my rolled shoulders. I had assumed I had bad workout form. I would google "discomfort in upper back" or whatever and it would say "back pain after exercise means take a rest" and I would rest and it wouldn't get better until I lost interest in working out. It never occurred to me that this could be a medical problem, so I never asked a doctor (not that I had one to ask, as I was working retail at the time). Last time I started working out, I went to ChatGPT instead of google and it said "here's your problem, here's how to fix it" and it was right and I continue to work out and my quality of life has risen tremendously. YMMV | |
| ▲ | techpression 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I would see less fake news, fake profiles and fake content in general. I would be happier, even if I would miss some of it.
It’s kind of sad how much we accept the idea of ”trust absolutely nothing” nowadays, even movie trailers for fictional movies are made to drive clicks for ads… obviously there has always been a large trust issue online, but with gen ai we entered a new era of it. |
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| ▲ | onion2k 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Your question implies a belief that things are 'good' or 'bad', but the reality of the world is a lot more nuanced than that. Pretty much everything that doesn't lead directly to human suffering can be seen as both good and bad. |
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| ▲ | casey2 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| No, that would be OpenAI (or Google if you want to talk technicals). Anthropic's strategy was just let RL on coding and jack up the price. I can only assume their real strategy is to speedrun getting the whole industry turned into a utility. |
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| ▲ | hatefulheart 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| 8 months ago I asked this question, I will ask again: Where are your browsers?
Where are your compilers?
Where are your databases?
Where are your operating systems? Can you point me to literally anything useful that works and was created by this world changing technology? All I see is dead project after dead project. |
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| ▲ | siwakotisaurav 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | If you take them at their word, the people working on the current browsers, compilers and databases are all using it Google self reports 70% ai usage in code, bun was fully ai rewritten to be rust | | |
| ▲ | hatefulheart 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Let’s not forget we are talking about a world changing technology here. So when you tell me “some people working on some projects are using it”, I’ll pretend you didn’t say “all” because that’s untrue, you haven’t asked all of them, and the company that got bought out by Anthropic did their “rewrite-in-rust” meme, do you think it’s unreasonable to incredulous? | | |
| ▲ | siwakotisaurav 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Now the goalpost is “all” of code? I don’t think anything I say is likely to change your mind. You might need to get through this valley of depression by yourself in a few years and join the rest of devs using ai | | |
| ▲ | hatefulheart 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Your reading comprehension is awful. You said “all” as in “all” developers on those projects. You haven’t spoken to all of them to make that claim. You’re just making stuff up. That’s what I was pointing out. If you are suggesting that we can call the Chromium project a work of LLMs because some developers may or may not be using LLMs on the project it let’s just stop the conversation right here. This is becoming a classic case of LLM brain rot. I hope you come back to your senses. | |
| ▲ | bbg2401 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Why do many AI advocates sound so, so much like the cryptocurrency zealots of the mid-2010's? Is it something you aim for, or is it just the natural way of communication for people excited by a new technology, patricianly one they feel gives them some kind of insider advantage or hidden knowledge? |
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| ▲ | m11a 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | How long did it take from the first DBMS to get to Postgres? The first OS to get to Linux? The first compiler to get to LLVM? For Postgres and Linux and LLVM to become mature enough to hold the revered reputation they have now? The jury's still out on AI, but coding agents have only really worked for about 6 months now. It's not exactly a fair statement to make. Obviously good things take time and thought. And understanding the full implications of technological advancement also takes time and thought. | |
| ▲ | khurs 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | AI isn't re-creating the world, it's augmenting it. The death of Stack Overflow being a visible indiction: https://data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/1926661#g... |
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