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teekert 6 hours ago

This is a nice piece of democracy right here:

"a measure it had rejected twice in March. Although a majority of voting Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) actually opposed the regulation (314 against, 276 in favor, 17 abstentions), the motion to reject it failed to secure the required absolute majority of 361 votes. As a result, mass scanning is now permitted again until 2028."

"Oh no we can't get a majority to pass the law!"

"Have you tried getting a majority to not pass the law?"

"Worth a shot!"

"It worked, should we also do this multiple times?"

"Of course not! Pass the law, quickly!"

xaitv 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

What I don't understand, based on this: https://howtheyvote.eu/votes/195775 the votes are the other way around, with the majority being for. I'm guessing that site has it reversed then or I don't fully understand the proposal? Looking at which politicians from my country voted "no" on this site it seems to be mostly the ones that I'd expect to vote "yes", so that would support this site just having the options reversed.

sampo 34 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> What I don't understand, based on this: https://howtheyvote.eu/votes/195775 the votes are the other way around

They voted for "Proposition de rejet". It's written there, but it's in French.

dmichulke 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Found this, source: https://fightchatcontrol.eu/

On 7 July, MEPs voted 331–303 to fast-track the return of Chat Control 1.0 mass scanning. A binding vote follows Thursday, 9 July, where an absolute majority of 361 MEPs is needed to stop it. Take action now to demand they defend your private messages.

"Yes" means stop control, because it's a "proposition de rejet" we're looking at. rejet = reject. Parties in favor of chat control were:

- European People’s Party and

- Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats.

Countries in favor of chat control were:

Spain, Poland, Romania, Sweden, Hungary, Portugal, Greece, Ireland, Lithuania, Latvia, Cyprus

If you look at the initial vote from July 7, there are a few countries who actually wanted to make it an "urgent decision" (other than the countries above):

France, Czechia, Finland, Croatia, Luxembourg

thisOtterBeGood 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The selection of countries seems so random. The poorer countries seem to be in favor, no judgment there... It looks like a pay-off list, though.

omnimus an hour ago | parent [-]

The whole thing also played like a game. 6 months ago the vote was signaled as pretty safely against chat control. You could watch how one by one the MEPs switched their positions. I assume they realized the vote wont hurt them because it's under the radar of general population. So it was safe to follow the lobby money.

teekert 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Maybe the voters also got confused and that's why it passed?

petre 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Hmm most MPs from Renew, Greens and eurosceptics (ECR) from my country voted yes. I'm a bit surprised since some of those are hardliner Christian conservatives that I'd never vote for under any circumstances.

3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
inferniac 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>This is a nice piece of democracy right here:

this is just eu in a nutshell, the irish were made to vote on both nice and lisbon treaties twice (both were voted no in the first vote)

sveme an hour ago | parent [-]

Well, the No vote triggered some adjustments, so this is indeed relatively democratic. What would be the alternative?

ndarray 27 minutes ago | parent [-]

Let's just as enthusiastically revote on the chat control law right now then! Oh, wait... revotes only happen when the bureaucrats/lobbyists want them

fschuett 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Democracy is when you just try and try again and again until it passes with 51/49. Then its democratic and legitimized and only evil terrorists would oppose those laws we have all democratically agreed upon.

Also, see the case of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%BCseyin_Do%C4%9Fru - if you aren't liked by the EU courts, they just accuse you of "collusion with Russia" and ban your bank account via "sanction policies". The ECJ doesn't have to provide any evidence of crime, you have to provide counter-evidence of the absence of crime (and good luck defending yourself without money). The ECJ judges, who interpret and impose these laws, are also not democratically really elected or anything, yet they hold power over your bank account. Makes ya think.

ivan_gammel an hour ago | parent [-]

How did you connect the linked Wikipedia article to EU courts and ECJ?

This journalist was not sanctioned by the court.

consensus1 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

mrkeen 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

We're currently running a long-term offshore experiment to see if 2A has any measurable impact on dragnet surveillance and the NSA.

consensus1 32 minutes ago | parent [-]

There are plenty of things to complain about here, and that is one of them. But that authorization was passed by our elected representatives by a super majority and reauthorized by them multiple times. It was not done by a sneaky maneuver where the majority of congress voted against it but somehow it still became law.

mrkeen 25 minutes ago | parent [-]

And yet people were happy to call Snowden a traitor for breaking the news of it.

Jtarii an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

True, the solution is to just start murdering politicians. Thanks for the advice America.

consensus1 31 minutes ago | parent [-]

Are you claiming this would be ineffective?

mrkeen 23 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

The problem is you can't choose which side the gun nuts end up on.

Jtarii 30 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

I am