Would Rust have made this issue impossible by construction? I know Linus has spoken about Rust's promises about memory safety not being equivalently applicable in the kernel domain, so I would be curious to hear any kernel developer's perspectives.

I'm not a kernel developer but I am an embedded firmware engineer.

To be clear: I like Rust. It's great, I use it a lot. But, Rust's memory safety stuff can't really save you from the screwiness of ISRs. Here's a long-winded example:

ST has a nifty double-buffer DMA mode for their ADCs, so you can give the ADC two different buffers, it'll fill one, fire an IRQ, you catch the IRQ and handle the data, meanwhile, it's filling the other buffer, and the IRQ fires again, you handle the data in the other buffer, rinse, repeat.

This allows the ADC to run continuously, monotonically and at very high sample rates, without monopolizing CPU. It's really a terrific design. I used it for a DIY telephony project once to run continuous FFTs on several ADC channels at once.

This is all fun, but the architecture introduces synchronization issues that aren't immediately solvable within Rust's data model.

Okay, so I can't run the FFT from within the ISR, so I delegate that to a thread. Do I have the thread read the DMA buffer directly, and just pray that it does it fast enough that the ADC doesn't loop back around to that buffer until the thread is done?

Or, do I have the ISR copy the buffer into a queue, mitigating the memory corruption risk? Well that seems good, but how do I make the queue visible to both the ISR and the thread? The ISR takes no arguments, it's just an address the CPU jumps to when a thing happens. Thus, the queue has to be global, which means more unsafe blocks and more very un-idiomatic Rust.

side note: in my use case, it actually worked just fine with the thread reading straight from the DMA buffer, even with the risk of memory corruption. But you can imagine use cases where the risk would be more severe, like maybe decoding packets from a serial interface.

Rust is designed to make this type of issue impossible, but that assumes that you can correctly encode object lifetimes in the kernel in a way that allows the compiler to check them.

So I would say that any easy answer like “this would not compile” would just be a guess, because you would want to know more of the particulars in order to answer this question.

I know that this is kind of a non-answer, but if you want to write a kernel in Rust you have to figure out boundaries for where unsafe {} are. In a kernel, there are probably large chunks of unsafe {} and the Rust compiler prevents certain bugs outside unsafe {} assuming there aren’t bugs inside unsafe {} that would prevent the type checker from doing its job correctly.

The Rust ownership model prevents use after free. This type of a bug would not compile.

I’m not an OS programmer and have been dabbling with OpenBSD’s code for fun. But the fact is that Rust kinda lacks flexibility. Most of the OS is dedicated to building a beautiful lie for programs to run happily, and that’s where C shine.

I shudder to think about the amount of work that it would take to convince the rust compiler that everything is all right. Most hardware interactions is “parse, don’t validate” which means you’ll be pinky-swearing to the compiler.

And for my cursory glances at the code, most structures are handled well, that it’s mostly logic bug (from bad data) instead of bad memory access (which can happen).

I often refrain from commenting about meta-issues on HN, but I'm particularly annoyed by the downvotes on this question of mine. What is this forum for, if not for this exchange between makers? I've noticed downvotes on questions are an oft occuring pattern. I think the comments on HN should house more than self-contained absolute statements.