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slopinthebag 4 hours ago

The “green movement” and “the environment” but mostly a desire for control. Why should people be able to own private property like cars, we should all be using government owned means of transportation in our new socialist utopia.

GuinansEyebrows 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

"the environment" wants to "force people out of cars"? are you hearing yourself?

slopinthebag 28 minutes ago | parent [-]

No, you’re not hearing me. The given reason for people wanting to force people out of cars is the environment, it’s not literally the environment wanting to force people out of cars (nonsense statement) and for a lot of people, that given reason isn’t even the real reason.

wizzwizz4 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Who desires the control? Can you name a member of this nebulous conspiracy? Nobody I've spoken to about this topic has been able to.

slopinthebag 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don’t need to know the names of the various lawmakers, lawyers, and politicians to know that they exist and to see the effects of their work. You’re being willfully blind here.

ryandrake 2 hours ago | parent [-]

"Trust me bro, I can't point to them but they exist" is also all the evidence we have of Aliens, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

slopinthebag 28 minutes ago | parent [-]

Why don’t you just google ecosocialism? Read the wiki entry? Is that too difficult?

Here:

Elmar Altvater

Ian Angus

Rudolph Bahro

Adam Bandt

Hugo Blanco

Murray Bookchin

Jabari Brisport

Walt Brown

Paul Burkett

Max Chandler-Mather

Barry Commoner

Jeremy Corbyn

Pat Devine

Jutta Ditfurth

Sabrina Fernandes

John Bellamy Foster

Alberto Garzón

André Gorz

Ramachandra Guha

Donna Haraway

Howie Hawkins

Jason Hickel

Joan Herrera i Torres

Naomi Klein

Mark Carney

Joel Kovel

Dimitri Lascaris

Enrique Leff

Michael Löwy

Caroline Lucas

Andreas Malm

David McReynolds

Jean-Luc Mélenchon

Steven Guilbeault

Chico Mendes

Luka Mesec

George Monbiot

William Morris

Abdullah Öcalan

James O'Connor

David Orton

Simon Pirani

Zack Polanski

Lee Rhiannon

Raül Romeva

Manuel Sacristán

Ariel Salleh

Joan Saura

Pernille Skipper

Jill Stein

Chlöe Swarbrick

Alan Thornett

Peter Tatchell

Alex Tyrrell

Derek Wall

Raymond Williams

Gerrard Winstanley

Avi Lewis

StanislavPetrov 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>Who desires the control? Can you name a member of this nebulous conspiracy?

Every level of government, the World Economic Forum and every other organization that seeks to mandate digital currencies, mandate digital IDs, impose "chat control" and eliminate all privacy. You have to have your head buried deep, deep in the sand to think this is some sort of conspiracy. It is all happening right out in the open.

wizzwizz4 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Nobody I've spoken to who's name-dropped the World Economic Form in this context knows what the WEF is. (To be fair, neither did I, to begin with – but I wasn't making claims about it.)

stackghost 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>[seeking to] mandate digital currencies, mandate digital IDs, impose "chat control" and eliminate all privacy.

None of this has anything to do with a purported green movement that seeks to end private ownership of cars. Modern cars are easy to track, for starters.

stackghost 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>Why should people be able to own private property like cars, we should all be using government owned means of transportation in our new socialist utopia.

Given that electric vehicles including cars, busses and trains all exist, can you explain what relationship exists between the notion of private property ownership (notably cars) and "the green movement"? It is not clear to me why a global environmentalist cabal would seek to end private ownership of electric cars, which have more or less the same drawbacks as electric busses or trains.

Furthermore:

As far as I can tell, the following groups are both wealthy and powerful, and have a financial interest in opposing the end of fossil fuels and/or the end of private property:

- big oil

- coal

- auto manufacturers

- major banks (because they finance loans, including auto loans)

- the governments of oil-rich nations like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Venezuela, Canada (Alberta, mostly), Russia, Iran, etc.

Can you also explain where the "green movement" is getting its funding and lobbying to not only resist but (according to you) completely overcome the influence of the above groups?

slopinthebag 27 minutes ago | parent [-]

Because the green movement is largely made up of socialists. As such, the Venn diagram of the desired end result for socialists and the green movement is nearly a perfect circle. You will find very few right-leaning or libertarian greens. Almost all of them also believe in Marxism or some derivative of it, or at least some form of left-leaning technocracy. Hopefully you don’t need me to explain the relationship between Marxism and private property. And don’t assume I’m right-leaning per-say, I’m probably socially more left than you are, it’s just that I believe in the sanctimony of the individual (which is where my socially left leaning views stem from). I’m not even necessarily opposed to socialism in theory, just in practice.

To answer your second question, I don’t think it’s accurate to assume auto manufacturers have a financial interest in opposing the end of fossil fuels.

stackghost 20 minutes ago | parent [-]

>Because the green movement is largely made up of socialists

Okay, and where are they getting their political clout and funding? I believe in following the money. Where does the money come from?

>I don’t think it’s accurate to assume auto manufacturers have a financial interest in opposing the end of fossil fuels.

Auto manufacturers certainly have a financial interest in private automobile ownership, don't you think?

slopinthebag 8 minutes ago | parent [-]

Sorry, why are their sources of funding relevant? If they’re in power or have influence, it could largely be a grassroots movement and it doesn’t matter?

Financial interest in private automobile ownership sure, but not opposing the end of fossil fuels. I didn’t claim they’re completely aligned, the real world is complex.