What has kept you from achieving C2, you’ve been there for 10y+

probably_wrong 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It may not sound like a satisfying answer, but: because I'm not here to earn a language certificate but rather to live and work, my German is more than fine, and I think my time could be better employed doing something else.

I've worked in German institutions for a long time now, I've published in German, I have no problems understanding people and, leaving my accent aside, people can understand me. I read books in German and understand German movies. My German is fine.

I could take time away from learning what's new in tech and science (a lot, apparently) to get a C2 but, and I may be wrong here, I don't think someone asking for "minimum C2" (which, again, disqualifies even native Germans) is engaging with the process in good faith.

I have no objections to learning the language, which is why I've done it. What I do object to is chasing a pointless certificate when I could be doing the thing I was brought here to do.

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SepiaSapient 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As a inverse example: a (German) family member has lived fully immersed for 20+ years in my Spanish speaking country.

I doubt he could pass a C2 level test, there's simply a hard limit in language learning for most people without academic instruction. It's also pointless, he's had a long career in a professional field where clear communication is mission critical. Furthermore even if another foreigner with a shiny Spanish C2 certificate appeared they would fare worse, because they wouldn't know the local social minutia.

Aside from jobs in the Literature department or something, a C2 requirement is a "foreigners need not apply" sign.

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skylurk 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Just ask Mark Twain ;)

https://faculty.georgetown.edu/jod/texts/twain.german.html

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helge9210 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

C1 can be achieved (I did it on 360 hours). C2 is academic level of language proficiency -- you have to either deliberately study for the difficult exam or get an university degree in German. Most of the Germans won't be able to pass a C2 test.

When a company sets C2 as a requirement, it can be interpreted as "must have a degree from German University".

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numeri 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Most Germans won't be able to pass a C2 test

That's not true, but it is a commonly shared myth. I've taken and passed C2 with the highest mark in every category (I moved here when I was a young teen, wanted to know if I would pass it after hearing years of people saying things like you're saying).

Most Germans would easily pass C2, although I think they'd have to be well-read/possibly university educated to get high scores (mostly need to be able to read quickly, give a semi-structured presentation and write a persuasive essay).

For what it's worth, I could run linguistic laps around all the other test takers there that day, and I assume at least some of them passed.

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alex0015 4 hours ago | parent [-]

That's a really interesting experience. Lots of people in language learning communities have this argument back and forth for years. Have you ever written a longer piece about your education, preparation for the exam, abilities of other test takers?

For reference I scored ~C1 in German years ago (testdaf 4/4/5/4) and at that level there's no question at all about the vast gulf between me and an educated native speaker.

	▲	numeri 29 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		I've not written up anything, no. I think I'd have a hard time doing so without just feeling like I'm bragging about myself, which I don't like. There's still a definite gap between me and native speakers, that shows itself primarily in the effort required, but I'm definitely near native (pass as German in all social settings, although an hour long conversation will usually tease it out due to my unfamiliar first name or small-talk topics, rarely but occasionally due to mistakes). I prepared by doing two practice exams and about 5 filmed and timed practice presentations, and that was over preparing for me. Experiences vary, and I do think I'm a bit towards the outlier side, but it's left me convinced that the whole "native speakers might not pass C2" thing is overblown.

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persedes 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah, not to make light of the tests, but those degrees boil down to paying Goethe Institut to take their classes that prep you for the test.

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jgilias 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I have a degree from a German University and don’t have C2. That requirement can be interpreted as “must not be an immigrant”