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akudha 6 hours ago

All this discussion makes me wonder - is there any country an immigrant can move to, and better their lives as well as the locals' life/economy? Assuming the immigrant makes every effort to integrate (learning the language, respecting local people/customs etc).

It seems the world is turning hostile to immigration in general - or maybe it is just the impression I get from the media? I don't know for sure.

malshe 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I know the US gets a lot of flak due to the current administration's policies and actions. Despite that it is still the best country for immigrants with the caveat 'Assuming the immigrant makes every effort to integrate (learning the language, respecting local people/customs etc)'

throw-the-towel 5 hours ago | parent [-]

More generally, I'd say the Americas are a step above Europe when it comes to ease of integration. In South America, people often assumed I'm immigrating, and made it clear I was welcome. In Europe, where I actually tried to immigrate, I'm treated as just a long-staying tourist. (Not blaming anyone here, they can run their countries however I want, but it's just silly to expect that people who have choice would come to Europe.)

throw-the-towel 3 hours ago | parent [-]

s/however I want/however they want/; that was a really silly typo.

rdbl27 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes. The United States.

Despite the whirlwind of media to the contrary, the US is very welcoming to foreigners who follow the laws (that is, don't enter illegally) and make an effort to integrate by learning the language and customs.

Much more than any other country on Earth.

theLiminator 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Much more than any other country on Earth.

What about Canada?

zdragnar 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Actually immigrating to Canada is quite a bit harder, from what I've heard.

sefrost an hour ago | parent [-]

Immigrating to Canada was a breeze for decades until the last 2-3 years when they started to reduce immigration numbers in response to citizen concerns.

suddenlybananas 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Have you watched the news in the past couple of years?

throw-the-towel 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They literally mentioned that they did.

throwaway27448 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

In practice, even the Trump administration is far less hostile to immigration than their rhetoric would betray.

g8oz 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

ICE agents are arresting people when they show up for green card interviews.

rdbl27 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

ICE agents arrest _people who committed crimes_ at green card interviews (including "entering the country illegally," which is a crime.)

As I said, the United States is very welcoming to foreigners who are willing to follow the laws.

throwaway27448 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That doesn't contradict what I'm saying. They aren't going to do anything that might depress the economy—it's just a sufficient cruelty to satisfy their base.

4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
NostraDavid 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> It seems the world is turning hostile to immigration in general

Not the concept itself, but the insane numbers. Even South Africa is having "anti-migrant" protests (by the _black_ population; important detail, due to history).

Having 1-2% of your population come in as migrants* is pretty nuts; no negative migration afterwards; number only goes up. I cannot see how this is going to end well in the long run.

*: This is for the Netherlands, for the last 5 years since 2024 (that's the latest numbers I got from our Central Bureau of Statistics (CBS)). That is _just_ economic migration. It's insane. I made some visualizations: https://tbataafschebroederschap.nl/projects/autochtoonse-ned...

bulbar 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's the impression you get from media.

Get born outside the western world and migrate to Europe as a skilled worker and your live increases significantly as well as that it your family. Same goes for the society you live in.

enevid009 an hour ago | parent [-]

This.

smithoc 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> is there any country an immigrant can move to, and better their lives as well as the locals' life/economy?

The United States.

> It seems the world is turning hostile to immigration in general - or maybe it is just the impression I get from the media?

The world is turning hostile to immigration because the media (and social media sites) highlight and repeat the bad anecdotes, while barely mentioning the actual data showing positive outcomes.

noosphr 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

People are turning on immigrants because the pie has been shrinking for decades.

suburban_strike 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What data suggests there is a positive outcome for the first world in integrating with the third world? Because my data suggests we're enthusiastically recreating the conditions that led to the Yugoslav civil wars.

And even you know it; I saw your other comment before you deleted it. You are well aware that there is a tipping point, and expressed disappointment that natives are resistant to the path that leads to it. It's like you want there to be ethnic violence.

bulbar 4 hours ago | parent [-]

At least in Germany, we are in dire need of skilled workers of different kind.

Your argument seems weird, where exactly will the civil war happen, US, Europe, EU, both?

vladms 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For better their lives as well as the locals' life I think it is most of them. For feeling rewarded or fulfilled for doing that, I think depends on both the person and the country, but probably quite rare.

I tried two countries so far (>5 year in both) and there were pluses and minuses in each. Which are different to the pluses and minuses in my home country.

I think that one will (generally) evolve and adopt some habits of the country you immigrated too, while giving up some habits you had before. The result? You might be a more complete person (because you become aware of the habits, and can choose to some extent) but on the other hand you will not belong anywhere any-more (you will not adopt some stupid habits of the new country, but you did gave up some stupid habits that you had).

throw-the-towel 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That really depends on what country are they coming from, and how established they are in life. As an extreme example, someone from Sudan would benefit by moving out, if only by being in a stable place that's not being ravaged by civil war.

graemep 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Lots of people want to migrate from one country to another, so they clearly think their own lives would be improved (bar a few doing it altruistically).

As for including the locals lives, how? You might be bringing skills they need, or money. Do you mean purely socially? That is very subjective.

I think the media exaggerate the hostility. IMO most of the hostility here in the UK is aimed at 1) illegal immigrants and asylum seekers and 2) Muslims. There is also rising hostility to Jews, but usually from an entirely different group to those hostile to Muslims.

haritha-j 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Because it’s quite difficult to tell whether someone is in the UK illegally just by looking at them, I imagine some of that hostility isn’t very well contained.

graemep 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Hard to know because its very rarely overt IRL and social media does not give you a good sample.

throwaway27448 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Immigration does generally improve the economy, but it doesn't happen overnight, and this is an incredibly easy anxiety to exploit for short-term political gain.

anothereng 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

pretty much anywhere in America (the continent) you're welcome to migrate to. We don't care as long as you respect the locals and the local culture

6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
sixothree 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We aren't really talking about this loneliness epidemic that is not contained to any one particular country. I can imagine how difficult it is to move to a new place now, no matter where it is, and especially in the future if the trend continues.

libertine 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There's been a lot of pressure to break the EU for quite some time, and now even the US is also aiming for this.

It's a lot of misinformation and funding from too many countries, for a long time.

What's impressive is how much this tension had actually been holding on, which goes to show that education actually plays an important role when dealing with misinformation.

Sadly it was successful in the UK.

joe_mamba 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> is there any country an immigrant can move to, and better their lives as well as the locals' life/economy?

Not really anymore. All the good ponds have all been fished out by now.

Housing is in short supply in every livable city in the western world and the job market is tight right now, so if you move there now, you're one, increasing labor competition for the locals, and two, rising housing prices for the locals. THe only locals happy with this arrangement are the corporation hiring you and the landlord taking your money.

The world has min-maxed itself into oblivion that it's already reached saturation point. We're way passed the balance point, everything is fucked, there's no magic place on the planet where things are nice for everyone.

smithoc 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's too bad that no immigrants work in construction to build more housing. If we could import lower cost laborers to build houses, that would greatly improve the housing affordability problem, but sadly, every time I go past a construction site, all I see are white guys whose great-great-great grandparents came over on the Mayflower.

suburban_strike 5 hours ago | parent [-]

> every time I go past a construction site, all I see are white guys whose great-great-great grandparents came over on the Mayflower.

If you're going to lie to people, at least come up with more-plausible propaganda than the talking points you people came up with in the 1920s.

The only WASPs anybody's going to find on a construction site in 2026 are the ones with wings and stingers.

joe_mamba 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Your parent was trying to be sarcastic that native WASPS are above working on construction sites and only migrants can do that.

Here in the EU where I was talking about, it's different, it's mostly European whites on construction sites, not WASPS, but intra-European migrants from balkans and eastern europe.

So here we literally gained nothing from the mass migration from africa and middle east except more housing demand instead of more skilled labor for building houses, contrary to the pro-migration propaganda.

throw-the-towel 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This is spot on. Even if the opportunity is still better in the West than elsewhere, the trend is to the worse. It feels much more rewarding to have a less tasty slice of a growing pie, than a tastier slice that's shrinking. (And the others behave with less toxicity, to boot.)