I think there is also a chicken-egg problem in almost every country that doesn't use English as official language:

If you are not an engineer you must have an almost excellent level of local language --> an excellent level of a language is only possible if you are immersed daily over a long time and have the time to study --> to live there you need a job --> back to start

Different counties have different tolerances regarding how quick you pick up the local language. For Germany and France this tolerance is almost 0, for Netherlands it's much higher.

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prolly97 14 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Anecdotally I've noticed that among the coworkers I've had from other countries, the ones who manage to learn danish and stay, have generally been in areas with lower density of foreign workers.

My theory is that in areas with lower densities of foreign nationals, you'd benefit more socially form learning the local language.

	▲	bossyTeacher 5 hours ago \| parent [-]
		This makes sense. By default, foreigners stick with their fellow countrymen pretty much everywhere. Not having them around gives foreigners a reason to socialise outside their bubble. I believe this is the reason why Denmark has the so called guetto laws.

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aleph_minus_one 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> If you are not an engineer you must have an almost excellent level of local language --> an excellent level of a language is only possible if you are immersed daily over a long time and have the time to study

I disagree: for many jobs, it is expected that you have a decent level of English, but at least in Germany, you are often not immersed a lot in English. So you have to get decent in English with barely any immersion.

I thus have a feeling that because many Germans had to learn hard to get somewhat decent in English on their own, they have the same expectation on immigrants to learn really hard on their own to get good in German fast (without demanding immersion).

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eldaisfish 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Your argument ignores one important aspect - incentives.

English is the global lingua franca, hence the incentive to learn English is incredibly strong. Outside of Germany, what exact benefit does the German language get you?

	▲	aleph_minus_one 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> Outside of Germany, what exact benefit does the German language get you? German is also official language in Austria, Switzerland and Luxembourg. In many neighbouring countries it is also often well-understood and/or there exist language minorities. > English is the global lingua franca From my professional experience I can tell that depending on the countries or persons from countries that you deal with, Spanish, French, Russian or Chinese can be much more important than English. So, calling English the global lingua franca is in my opinion rather based on a selection bias on specific countries.

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rawbot 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

In Germany, if you are an non-software Engineer, you MUST have an excellent level of the language. I have not seen a single Engineering position that doesn't require C1.

	▲	anthonj 10 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I know some electronic and mech engineers with no german skills, but it's always in young startup in major cities.