Remix.run Logo
tim-fan a day ago

Is anyone making LLM-in-a-box for emergency supply kits yet?

I feel that would be handy in all sorts of situations when networks are down.

Terr_ a day ago | parent | next [-]

> LLM-in-a-box for emergency

For most actual emergency scenarios, a device that focuses on storage of large amounts of prepared normal reference material [0] will be wayyyyy cheaper, more durable, portable, and able to run on batteries or being constantly plugged into a somehow-still-normal electrical grid. (Think an e-ink tablet that can run off a 5V battery pack buffering a literal handcrank.)

In contrast, imagine spending the money to build a beefy LLM-running computer with good GPU/RAM, and somehow mothballing it (to depreciate, unused) in a "safe" location for the big earthquake/flood/etc... Then when the disaster strikes and you dig it out, how will you power it when you need it, and for long enough to do anything useful?

Even if wall-current civilization is 20 miles away on the other side of the mountain, are you going to carry it on your back, or are you going to carry food and water to live? If you do drag it there, are they going to let you run it when it cuts into light for surgery or heat to sterilize drinking water?

skybrian a day ago | parent | next [-]

You will probably want a search engine though. Perhaps a small LLM would work well as a component for that?

iamflimflam1 a day ago | parent | next [-]

You may benefit from an embedding approach for semantic search. Not sure what an LLM would give you on top of that.

crsx_ a day ago | parent | next [-]

If the emergency is in a foreign country, being able to communicate with locals would likely be a benefit - and a domain specific trained model could translate better than general purpose translators.

In general, I think speech as input/output is under-explored. In the emergency scenario, in a stressful environment, having an expert in your ear you can talk to should work much better than having a big manual book to look up specific cases.

Lio a day ago | parent | prev [-]

I think an LLM would give a "conversational" experience to search.

That's handy for situations where you might not really understand what you need to search for. Any search system that can ask you clarifying questions is going to be a big improvement.

Or where you need to combine several steps together but you don't yet know what those steps are.

There's probably other technologies that could do that, requiring lower resources but they'll come with different trade-offs around configuration.

Just having a Raspberry PI, a offline copy wikipedia and a RAG enabled small LLM would be quite useful or at least entertaining if you have to go off grid.

visarga a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> You will probably want a search engine though.

The search engine is indeed the last missing component from a sovereign stack. But I think this could be solved locally with little cost. Instead of indexing content on the web we should be indexing sources themselves - where to look for X? - like forums, blogs, docs, feeds, and specialized search engines. We could collectively amass millions of these search stubs that can be used by local models to go and fetch fresh information from the source directly. This means separating the routing layer from the information layer, we don't need to keep information cached from the whole internet locally. The search stubs could fit in a few GB about same size with the local LLM. The cool thing is that sources change much slower than information itself, so the search stub database could be refreshed at a slower pace. We could combine a few million generic stubs with a few hundred personal stubs generated from our own activities. It is trivial to generate these stubs by piggy backing on frontier models.

20 hours ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
rtpg a day ago | parent | prev [-]

grep works well!

zmgsabst a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You can run a small model off a home generator — so in an emergency, you’d turn on both the generator and information service, eg, a mesh for “quick” responses querying that huge collection of information.

That way your machine that, eg, normally plays video games or does AI work can support relief efforts by supporting emergency response IT. You don’t need to mothball the machine, just have an “emergency” boot USB than can run the services from your home generator.

You don’t even need to bring it with you: turn it on and leave it “best effort” at home, while you continue to use it via WAN.

Terr_ a day ago | parent [-]

I feel this is going into increasingly-unlikely mixes of constraints and needs in order to try to keep a "wouldn't it be cool if" hypothetical-tool dream alive. [0]

But OK, let's assume that: The power is out, but you have a generator with so much fuel you can run a desktop just fine; Your neighborhood will somehow make a mesh network; Your neighbors need some already stored information and the best solution for that is texting a chatbot rather than a survival/emergency handbook or Wikipedia; Your mesh-network will also be good enough to match the time-sensitivity of the questions.

Under those assumption, which of these sounds better?

1. Buying an "LLM-in-a-box for emergency supply kits", which you deploy so that your neighbors can ask questions (text over the mesh) of the offline chatbot.

2. Buying a satellite internet transciever for your emergency supply kit, so that your neighbors can ask questions of a much better chatbot and communicate with human experts, their worried relatives, and coordinate with rescue/relief efforts...

[0] https://xkcd.com/2128/

zmgsabst a day ago | parent [-]

Option 1 sounds better:

I’m only out the cost of the drive, which is like $40 and doesn’t require anybody on the other side cooperate with me.

- - -

More broadly…

You call it unlikely mixes, but we see it all the time:

- people already have a computer for gaming or work

- people (ie, “preppers” like we’re discussing) buy a generator for emergencies

- local emergency response sets up mesh networking during disasters, both official and unofficial

Have you ever tried to use a handbook you’re not intimately familiar with during an emergency? It’s rough.

For personal preparedness, nothing replaces familiarity and practice — eg, weekend survival trips and reading your manual ahead of time.

But for providing information in a random lookup manner to unpracticed people who weren’t prepared? Yes, I think an LLM/chatbot is the practical way to operationalize all that information which you stored (eg, survival guides or machine manuals).

Also, it’s unlikely a general purpose chatbot would be superior at survival advice to one specialized for that purpose — and indeed, is likely to refuse your questions as “unsafe” or “criminal”.

swiftcoder a day ago | parent | next [-]

> I’m only out the cost of the drive, which is like $40 and doesn’t require anybody on the other side cooperate with me.

At current prices you are also out about $4k for a Spark to actually run the inference on, if you want a full LLM in a low-power package.

In general, I'm not sure why one would want to pin your survival to an expensive, hallucination-prone data source, when an offline copy of wikipedia with a little vector search attached to a Raspberry Pi can fulfil the same role...

root_axis 20 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Have you ever tried to use a handbook you’re not intimately familiar with during an emergency? It’s rough.

Sounds like the absolute worst time to rely on a crappy little model that will inevitably hallucinate.

weikju a day ago | parent | prev [-]

> If you do carry it to an enclave of civilization that has the right power, are they going to let you run it when it cuts into light for surgeons or heat to sterilize water?

Knowing humans? They'd probably take it by force and run it for themselves instead of providing light and heat to surgeons and water sterilizers...

/daily dose of cynism

SwellJoe a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is couched in prepper nonsense, but it's got LLM, WikiPedia, maps, etc. A bunch of genuinely useful stuff to keep on a USB stick or whatever: https://www.projectnomad.us/

But, the current model you really want for an emergency kit is Gemma 4 12B QAT 4-bit. At ~7GB on disk, it's small enough to run on a tablet or any modern computer, slowly if you don't have a GPU or modern Apple silicon, but exceedingly smart for its size, excellent vision capabilities, good tool user, surprisingly good reasoning.

dofm a day ago | parent [-]

The 12B QAT model is really overlooked because the tech industry has been so desperate for the LLM bet to play out to "product market fit" (which means please IPO now) that it has become convinced that coding models are the only things that matter.

bluerooibos a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Is anyone making LLM-in-a-box for emergency supply kits yet?

Maybe someone should be making this, but for rebuilding society in the event of a disaster - a solar-powered black box with most of humanity's knowledge within. Even something running one of the Qwen models would be useful.

"So, we had a nuclear war and need to start from scratch. How do I turn this rock into a computer chip?"

bluGill a day ago | parent [-]

If you are rebuilding society most of this knowledge is useless for centuries. You don't have enough labor to build and maintain factories. You will spend centuries in the hunter gather phase struggling to survive, while slowly building agriculture. You will be lucky if you can teach your grandkids to read - since that will be a useless skill.

Print important knowledge on paper and store it in a desert. in 2000 years society and population will advance enough to get a jump start based on our knowledge.

jonbodner a day ago | parent [-]

There is no rebuilding society because of energy. All of the oil and coal that could be extracted by a civilization that only has wood for fuel has been used. If we go back to the Stone Age, we aren’t returning to the present. If we’re lucky, we will get to the Middle Ages.

bluGill 21 hours ago | parent [-]

There is still a lot of coal and oil to be had. It isn't as easy as it used to be, but there is still a lot. If we get to the middle ages then society can build a lot with knowledge. More efficient iron production than what the middle ages (when still using wood) had for example would be useful, and our knowledge of technology may allow bicycles sooner (bicycles need higher technology than a steam engine)

robotswantdata a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

https://developers.google.com/edge/gallery

Put that on a spare phone

vessenes a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I've been mulling over a good use of a large philanthropy spend in the next decade, and I would love to build a bunch of hardware "oracles" that include an LLM. Ideally solid state, visual/audio, solar + usb-c, so, good in a lot of doomsday scenarios as well as just out hiking. It's a fun thought experiment. I imagine making like 1 million of them, they could be sold and genuinely useful, but also given away; once owned, you could use them, or store and put in an emergency box, bury next to the 10k year clock.. a lot of possibilities.

adrianN a day ago | parent [-]

I feel like you could get a lot more quality of life improvement for more people with the money if you spent it on low tech solutions, eg more efficient cooking stoves for people still cooking with biomass, or solar microgrids for areas without electricity.

vessenes a day ago | parent [-]

No doubt there are a hundred more direct things one could do. On the other hand this would include instructions for all those things and could advise on the building! I think it would be a nice thing to have in the world.

RetroTechie 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Oh my... I can think of a 101 things more useful in actual emergencies than an LLM-in-a-box. Unless you have a weird definition of "emergency" (if so: please define).

sumitkumar a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

electricity outage and battery running out is the end game for any real prolonged external emergency. Internet connection is just the soft edge.

rasz a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Smallest local model able to work with offline wikipedia dump would be one step above just having an offline wikipedia dump.

cdnsteve a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Can you expand what you mean?

wahnfrieden a day ago | parent [-]

They want to ask the iOS Foundation model (frontier on device intelligence for something small) for instance about emergency procedures and life-saving info. I wouldn’t trust that model with much at all though. More likely to find what you need from miniature survival guides.

dofm a day ago | parent [-]

> They want to ask the iOS Foundation model (frontier on device intelligence for something small)

This is a bit of a straw man, TBH.

For one thing, "LLM-in-a-box" doesn't necesssarily imply a device as small as a phone.

For another, you'd need to convince people that the iOS Foundation model is the "frontier" of LLMs that run on phones when it is really not. AFAIK it is noticeably outperformed by the Gemma 4 E2B model and certainly the E4B.

https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/technology/developers-...

Here is a common-or-garden youtube video that includes a demonstration of how much better the E2B is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTxyBUbdZcA

Whether this idea (LLMs for emergency/survival scenarios) has value, I don't know, so I am not offering an opinion, but you should approach it with a good faith argument.

I am an LLM cynic but I suppose if I was to be without connectivity but with power for a while, a device with the Gemma 4 E2B or E4B model on it might be helpful or interesting to have. If such a device had the 12B QAT model on it, that really would cross the line to utility. Not sure it has value in the OP's scenario, still.

wahnfrieden 19 hours ago | parent [-]

I meant the new 20B param Foundation models, not the ones from last year. But sure Gemma might be better

tristor 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't if anyone is doing this yet, but I think a small LLM w/ data sets for RAG reachable via APRS and LoRa would be very useful, not just as an individual but for the community around you.

burgerone a day ago | parent | prev [-]

This is HN, not Reddit.