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OsrsNeedsf2P 8 hours ago

Am I the only one who thinks the risks are worth the reward? People are celebrating, kids are having fun. Yes a few people blow their hands off, but are we going to remove everything, one by one, in the name of safety?

alwa 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I have a beautiful memory from a summer night long ago, in Barceloneta on the evening of the summer solstice—the festival of Saint Joan [0]. I didn’t know it was coming, which was its own special sort of astonishment… walked in to eat dinner, walked out to a mountain of furniture on fire in the intersection, air thick with gunpowder smoke, bands of youths firing Roman candles at one other…

The specific image that comes to mind, though—I remember dozens upon dozens of ambulances lined up at the ready along the waterfront, their crews hanging out enjoying the madness until they would be called upon.

Having been raised in pretty cautious circles, that image struck me: the powers-that-be knew some proportion of bad stuff would happen. I figured that meant they’d “just make a law against it.” Instead of trying to stop it, though, they focused on preparedness and timely response.

Since then, of course, I’ve learned that The Law has a lot less raw power than I’d imagined against tradition and popular will…

Since then I’ve accepted as creed that the best and most human parts of life reach their most salient in the moments of paradox between principles. “Avoid safety risks” is correct, “living fully requires accepting risks” is also correct.

[0] https://www.barcelona-tourist-guide.com/en/events/sant-joan/...

somehnguy 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nope, completely with you on this. The logical conclusion of banning everything dangerous is everything in existence being banned. There are many things people do that I think are dumb or dangerous but that doesn't mean I think they should be banned from doing them.

globular-toast 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Not true. I support anyone doing anything that is harmful to themselves. I don't support doing things that are harmful to others.

georgeburdell 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I’m with you. I shoot off small fireworks for my kids and my immediate neighbor on our quiet street, and we have a neighbor a few doors down who invariably calls the cops. This has been going on since the 2000s when she moved in. If I’m fined, I just pay it.

xeyownt 2 hours ago | parent [-]

You are above the laws if you have the money. Wonderful teaching for your kids. The world knows where that is leading.

wonnage 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"Some of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make" was supposed to be a comically evil statement in Shrek

chopin 8 minutes ago | parent [-]

But that is the maxim which drives almost everything we do on a daily basis.

anon7000 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Come on, it’s not a choice between complete anarchy and complete restriction.

It is very, very fair for society to be like “hm I think X activity is easy to abuse in a way that hurts innocent bystanders,” and then limits the activity to people with licenses and training or things like that.

Like no, it’s totally not cool to give a free pass to people who are putting other people’s lives and homes at risk. How would you feel if your house burned down because your neighbor did something stupid?

I don’t care if it’s just your own life at risk. But you’re essentially saying that people should be free to play around with explosive devices in dense city neighborhoods. Fuck no, it’s fucking concerning to have an explosion rattle your windows. The people most likely to do this shit in the streets have no clue what they’re doing.

Xirdus 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> How would you feel if your house burned down because your neighbor did something stupid?

Probably the same way I'd feel if it burned down because my neighbor did some other stupid thing, like drive into it with a truck or try stealing electricity. There would be many feelings probably, but none of them would be "trucks/DIY should be illegal".

chneu 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

What if there was one day a year where it was expected for people to speed through your neighborhood at 20 over the speed limit, which ends up with a bunch of people driving into houses with their vehicles?

It's not really the fireworks that is the issue. It's the alcohol, drugs, and overall attitude towards a dangerous activity. It's a bit different than a random mishap or whatnot.

Xirdus 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> What if there was one day a year where it was expected for people to speed through your neighborhood at 20 over the speed limit, which ends up with a bunch of people driving into houses with their vehicles?

You mean All Saints Day (1st of November)? No, thousands of drunk drivers taking dozens of innocent lives and hurting hundreds more, year after year like a clockwork, is still not a reason to ban trucks, or any other car type. Or to cancel All Saints Day, if that's what you're implying.

zamalek 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Stealing electricity is already illegal. Driving a truck into your home could be a genuine accident, but it's more likely that alcohol was involved first (which is illegal with driving).

jmb99 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Do you think it’s legal to shoot a firework at someone’s house?

Xirdus 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Stealing electricity is already illegal.

So is shooting a house with fireworks. I'm against a general ban on doingelectrical work yourself, and against a general ban on fireworks.

engineer_22 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Like no, it’s totally not cool to give a free pass to people who are putting other people’s lives and homes at risk. How would you feel if your house burned down because your neighbor did something stupid?

We quite literally have a long and rich tradition of laws to handle exactly this.

fc417fc802 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You are arguing against a straw man. It was never claimed or even implied that society can't or shouldn't regulate activities that cause harm. The cost benefit tradeoff in this specific instance was called into question and the broader implications of a consistent application of the same bar across all of society was inquired about.

> you’re essentially saying that people should be free to play around with explosive devices in dense city neighborhoods. Fuck no, it’s fucking concerning to have an explosion rattle your windows.

This is nothing more than emotional grandstanding. You could construct similar rants against a canister of gas or bottle of starter fluid. Obviously how you use the thing is important.

Lest you miss my point or think I miss the mark there are video footage of clueless people nearly killing themselves and others through entirely avoidable mishaps with gasoline abound.

The question is the amount of knowledge and judgment required, the likelihood of mishap, and the size of the consequences when one inevitably happens. Regulation needs to balance these things against utility and personal freedom.

lazyasciiart 4 hours ago | parent [-]

> Obviously how you use the thing is important.

Is there a way to use large fireworks in a residential neighborhood that isn’t “light them on fire to cause an explosion”?

fc417fc802 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Large? When fireworks within the ATF limits for unlicensed individuals are used according to manufacturer instructions they explode on the ground or in the air in a way that does not endanger the surrounding structures. Of course you can't safely light them off in a narrow alley between three story buildings. Anyone doing that (or similarly foolish things) was behaving recklessly to begin with.

protocolture 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>How would you feel if your house burned down because your neighbor did something stupid?

Burning your neighbors house down is already illegal. You and they should already have insurance. House fires in human dwellings have been a risk since we started building houses next to other houses.

The issue is that we (and I mean worldwide) have gone from legalism as a method of settling disputes and advertising penalties for destructive behavior, to outlawing risk entirely.

The crux of the matter is that no one stops to point out where the line is. Laws will come in to penalise low probability risks, people make these arguments "wont someone think of the children" and then lawmakers turn on to even lower probability risks.

If you had even a benchmark, "more probable than x is outlawed" people would be more understanding. And its not a slippery slope argument, because the slope seems to be the point and without a line the destination appears to be all possible risk.

wonnage 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I'm gonna go ahead and assume you don't believe in driver licenses and speed limits either

protocolture 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I have nuanced views on both.

I am gonna go ahead and assume theres no freedom you wouldn't give away for safety if the government justified it in the right way.

xeyownt an hour ago | parent [-]

It's not that simple.

Rules do not necessarily reduce freedom, they can in fact even provide more freedom on the longer term, when the system finds a new balance.

The difficulty of course is to find the proper rules and evaluate these effects from current system state.

consensus1 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You're not the only one. There are few things I hate more than safetyists.

pandaman 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I am fine with the professional fireworks shows but people setting fireworks inside residential areas, in all hours of night, for weeks during summer is just people being massive douchebags.

trollbridge 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Right.

On the evening of July 4, fine.

Setting off firecrackers in urban areas otherwise is simply antisocial behaviour and should be treated as such.

chneu 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Like 10 people died in my state on the 4th. A few were not directly involved in celebrations but were just doing their own thing.

Does that really sound reasonable to you?

colechristensen 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Died of what?

25,000 people die in my state every year, 10 in a day would be miraculously low.