I keep up with PL development, and I am only vaguely aware of Odin (and same for Jai and V).

(But this isn’t the point: lots of programmers know about relatively obscure thing, but that does not itself make them notable. Notability is a well-defined property on Wikipedia.)

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jibal 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Then you don't.

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woodruffw 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Thank you, that’s very persuasive.

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jibal 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What should be persuasive is a simple logical inference from the statements made to my conclusion.

From the article:

> If you are terminally online on programming circles, you most likely have heard of Odin, it's so obvious that I don't feel like I have to make a case at all. It has been covered by the streamer Primeagen and it's used commercially by JangaFX, that's pretty notable to me.

If you are active in discussions of other systems programming languages like Zig, Nim, Jai, D, V, Hare, C3, etc. then you have heard of Odin. If someone hasn't heard of all of those languages then it's an objective fact that they don't "keep up with PL development".

See for instance https://dev.to/dimension-ai/13-languages-are-challenging-c-m...

Deletion of this article is an indication of inadequate processes at Wikipedia for determining the notability of certain sorts of subjects.

> Notability is a well-defined property on Wikipedia.

This is not true ... if it were then there would not be disputes about notability. And simply reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability makes it clear that it is not "a well-defined property". And beyond that, one of the points being discussed is that Wikipedia's criteria for notability have not adapted to the current state of affairs. If Wikipedia did have a rigid "well-defined property", that would be a mistake.

As GingerBill is quoted as saying in TFA:

> Odin is now being used by dozens of companies, thousands of public projects, and over a million hobbyists.

By a sensible rational evaluation, that makes it notable.

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Barrin92 an hour ago | parent [-]

No it's an indication that notoriety in Discord servers isn't a basis for relevance in an encyclopedia. Which is a good choice. A streamer mentioned a language? Wikipedia isn't Twitter.

As a reader thank god not everything that has grabbed the attention of social media gets an article.

	▲	baranul a minute ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Exactly. Because a person hangs out in certain social media circles or bubbles, doesn't mean that information from those places are general public knowledge or meets the standards that Wikipedia asks for.
	▲	skotobaza 15 minutes ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		Why wouldn't you want to have an article about a programming language that is currently used in production by someone? Are there any downsides to this?
	▲	jibal an hour ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		I'm talking about a universe of developing systems programming languages, not "the attention of social media" -- that's a silly shallow bad faith reduction. And I see that elsewhere you have written "a archive for whatever trends on social media, which seems to be the articles criterion for the relevance of Odin" -- it doesn't seem that way to anyone who is remotely intellectually honest ... clearly it is ideology about the scope of Wikipedia articles that is work here totally independently of any knowledge of or details about Odin. There is also virtually no attention in these comments to the content of TFA, e.g., > the entire point of this article is to counter the social media persona where dunking by performative disinterest and uncuriosity are a virtue and rewarded by engagement and short-term reward structures. Anyway, the Wikipedia article was deleted -- you won. People are still entitled to think that it was a mistake and to say why.