What does being "pro-vax" mean?

That you believe in any claims of vaccine efficacy made by the manufacturers or the FDA and are more then willing to have them injected into your body?

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no-name-here 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

If you don't believe every developed countries’ medical bodies on vaccines, where do you get your info on this? (As to the ‘pro-vax’ question, I'd define it as someone who is open to listening the medical bodies of every developed country on the planet.)

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qsera 3 hours ago | parent [-]

So what is the logic here?

If the only entity that you can get information from is an entity that is known to lie, you can trust this entity?

It is not that we know for a fact that X is not safe. It is that we have no reason to believe that the powers that can ensure that, does not have an incentive to do it, and a large financial incentive to NOT do it and instead grease a lot of palms and get it mandated.

This is particularly relevant when the cost to grease the palms is minuscule compared to the profit that can be made by the approval.

And it is particularly relavant when the common man cannot any relavant information about it from any other source.

We are sitting ducks here. But people apparently does not notice.

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no-name-here 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I think your own logic supports the opposite from your conclusions?

I'm saying that every developed country's medical bodies support that these vaccines are safe.

Are you claiming that every developed country's medical bodies do not have an incentive to make the right decisions around vaccines? That they will be too cautious because they are afraid of approving something that turns out to be unsafe, or the opposite that they have no fear of approving something unsafe?

Are there any examples you'd point to of where developed countries' medical bodies approved something unsafe because they were bribed, as you imply is the norm today?

But most importantly, if you think every developed country's medical bodies should not be used as the source of info about safety vs benefits, what should be? Or what should be the system even if it doesn't exist today?

> is an entity that is known to lie

What are you referring to?

> the common man cannot any relavant information about it from any other source.

The common man is inundated with info about vaccines from other sources, although much of it is misinformation, etc.

	▲	qsera 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		>Are you claiming that every developed country's medical bodies do not have an incentive to make the right decisions around vaccines? It is a question of how aligned the individual's incentives and the incentives of the medical body in question. And often it is extremely misaligned. So that is what is I mean when I said there is "no incentive". So what do I mean by that? When such an organization recommend X, it just mean that if everyone follows that recommendation, the population wide metric, that can be immediately measured or that is often measured will show good beneficial result. So here if people follow the recommendation two things can happen 1. The number of covid deaths will drop. This is something that will show up immediately, because everyone was focused on daily death toll. 2. A substantial number of people will have adverse effects. This is something that can be managed (in terms of public opinion) So the incentive of the organization end up being favorable to the recommendation despite the very good chance of point 2 happening. With financial incentives, this is just more pronounced... > What are you referring to? Any group of human beings.

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estearum 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It probably means that you take the statistical evidence produced by massive double-blinded placebo-controlled randomized clinical trials as actual evidence

	▲	qsera an hour ago \| parent [-]
		That is not really an evidence unless you yourself eliminate any biases or flaws in the trial methodology. Even trained professionals fail to do that regularly...