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eska 3 hours ago

It should be illegal to have others purchase what you as a company only licensed and therefore aren’t legally allowed to sell.

mmh0000 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

What's funny is that Sony has done this before![0] I've had a personal boycott against Sony products due to this.

  "The feature was controversially removed by Sony since system firmware update 3.21, released on April 1, 2010.[2] A class action lawsuit was filed against Sony on behalf of users, but was dismissed with prejudice in 2011 by a federal judge. The judge stated: "As a legal matter, ... plaintiffs have failed to allege facts or articulate a theory on which Sony may be held liable."[3] However, this decision was overturned in a 2014 appellate court decision[4] finding that plaintiffs had indeed made clear and sufficiently substantial claims. Ultimately, in 2016, Sony settled with users who had installed Linux or had purchased a PlayStation 3 based upon the availability of OtherOS."

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OtherOS
garciansmith 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yep. I had tons of Sony games across the first three Playstation consoles. I was a grad student with a PS3 at the time and I actually used Yellow Dog Linux on it as a computer to write papers when my laptop broke. Then the update came and I chose to ignore it, but that meant I couldn't play online games. Soon new games required a firmware update (still remember putting in the Dark Souls disc and being stunned I wasn't allowed to play it!).

And with games it's just getting worse (Sony announced they won't make discs starting 2028; the Switch 2 takes carts but very, very few games release on a cart). If you care about control over the games you purchased, if you care about going back and playing older games, then the only choice is to use platforms that are DRM free. (Or, well, non-legal means.)

Fire-Dragon-DoL 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Kinda. On Steam I can still play games I bought 18 years ago.

Still walled garden, but they act way better.

Shalomboy an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Valve is in a funny position now. They lived long enough to see every one of Sony and XBOX's moats dry up by being pro-consumer where possible, but with Steam as the leader of a fungible game distribution market it may no longer make good business sense to continue to act so benevolently.

We've reached a sort of gaming singularity where nearly every video game can be run on any hardware you choose or be streamed over the network to a thin client. PlayStation and XBOX consoles are basically dedicated gaming PCs that can only run Sony or Microsoft's version of Steam. DirectX is losing ground too thanks to Proton and Vulkan, so Microsoft won't have the last laugh there either. If Valve controls the store you purchase games from, the software which runs the games, and the operating system running the software, they are an ODM contract away from becoming Sony's PlayStation division, and look where they are now.

wongarsu 30 minutes ago | parent [-]

Steam still has to deal with Epic being willing to throw billions at trying to dethrone Steam, and Gog being alive and well and being in the perfect position to say "we told you all along that you shouldn't have to trust Steam, buy your DRM free games here". Also every big publisher wanting to pull their own games to their own storefront and only being forced to crawl back because gamers refuse to leave Steam

And even if they somehow arrived in a market position where being less benevolent would make more money: Valve isn't publicly traded, nobody is forcing them to make the most profitable move. As long as Gabe and the other owners prefer being benevolent they can continue doing it

(not that they are all around benevolent. "consistent" and "usually choosing the side of the customer over the side of the publisher" is maybe the better framing)

garciansmith 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

True, but Steam still controls Steam and they can change their terms whenever they want. But for now it's ok, at least. And their hardware is happily open: I've played a bunch of games I got on GOG, DRM-free, on my Steam Deck, for example.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I don't disagree with you, but open hardware DOES make a difference, in the worst case scenario I can turn the hardware into a GOG machine, or into a PC. Also if they ever lock my library, I am turning to piracy (I have 1000+ games)

garciansmith 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Agreed, for sure. Open hardware is the only way forward honestly. As someone who has traditionally played mostly on consoles, it does make me sad, partially because consoles are so much less finicky. But the control is worth it (and work on things like Proton has made playing older games so much smoother).

Now if the RAM companies make it so you won't ever be able to afford your own hardware and every game company pushes cloud-only gaming... Well, we aren't there yet thankfully, but I fear it'll happen.

someonebaggy 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They're always good until they aren't. They can only be trusted if they don't have a way to be bad. Steam could lock down tomorrow and you couldn't do anything about it.

wing-_-nuts 39 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Till Gabe dies and valve is bought out by private equity

quantumink 26 minutes ago | parent [-]

Imagine if Gabe went the Yvon Chouinard way? (founder of Patagonia refused to IPO, never sold controlling stake, recently left the entire company to an environmental conservation trust - certified LEGEND)

Gabe seems like the kinda guy who is in the Game for the love of games.

It would be a legendary legacy indeed to commit Valve and it's profits to a trust which defends digital rights and freedom.

quentindanjou 5 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> In November 2018 final payouts for members of the class were sent in the amount of $10.07.

Gosh this is ridiculous

gbraad 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I boycot Sony since they blocked my PSN account, which got hacked due to them! Purchases I made are not available, ... I really took a disliking before when they refused to fix my Vaio laptop, ... this was the last drop!

Frieren 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Good, but only laws will keep them on check. If I boycotted all companies that have done something wrong, I would boycott all of them. I keep that option for the worst offenders. Laws and regulations is what keeps companies in check.

piltdownman 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They make it up as they go along. Their 2005 Audio-CD EULA includes provisions purporting to require the immediate deletion of all copies if a user files for personal bankruptcy

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2005/12/summary-claims-against...

3 hours ago | parent | next [-]
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xtracto 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If buying is not owning, piracy is not theft.

wing-_-nuts 31 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

A buddy of mine is pretty insistent on physical media, wherever possible, and honestly, at this point, he's been proven right again and again.

Sad that most executable code (games, software, etc) these days is digital only and requires drm calls to a license server to install. I will not pirate executable code.

dylan604 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I like how succinct this is.

nekusar 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Piracy was never theft.

It was a copyright violation. Which, I don't give one fuck about.

matheusmoreira 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Yeah. Copyright monopolists equate copyright infringement to literal high seas piracy because it's the only way they can make any impact. Nobody would give a fuck otherwise.

nekusar an hour ago | parent [-]

And the OTHER copyright monopolists (Anthropic, OpenAI, Meta, X) proved the rules don't apply to them with copyright.

And then Anthropic publically bellyaches that "WAHHHH CHINESE ARE STEALING OUR STOLEN DATA WAH". Lemee get that worlds tiniest violin for that sonata!

These days if you're following the rules, you're a rube and a stooge. And you will be taken advantage of again and again and again.

matheusmoreira 31 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yeah. It's so disgusting.

One would think dozens of SWAT officers would rappel down helicopters and storm the mansions of these big tech CEOs. Unpayable trillion dollar fines, actual prison time. Instead the AI companies reached some absurd settlements with publishers that made a mockery out of all the previous copyright enforcement victims.

noahbp 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Plenty of people purchase digital movie rentals from Apple, Youtube, etcetera because they know they will watch it once, and the lower price in exchange for a temporary license is acceptable to them. I don't think banning this is pro-consumer.

It should, however, be illegal to tell your customers that they are purchasing/buying media without explicit "Rent" language (which implies a non-expiring license) when you do not yourself have the right to grant non-expiring licenses.

etempleton 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They often have two tiers, a rental tier and a purchase tier. If you purchase the assumption is it will be available forever.

dylan604 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Seems like a bad assumption at this point even if it goes against expectations. We've seen on multiple occasions now from different companies where a digital purchase wasn't forever. This is no way an endorsement of the behavior, but if that's your assumption then the quip "you know what happens when you assume" wins again.

babypuncher 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Plenty of people purchase digital movie rentals from Apple, Youtube, etcetera because they know they will watch it once, and the lower price in exchange for a temporary license is acceptable to them. I don't think banning this is pro-consumer.

Many of these services offer cheaper rental options. When you go for the more expensive "buy" option, the assumption that you are actually buying it to keep should hold true.

404mm 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I bet there’s a class action coming.

And Sony made it easy for them too by using this verbiage: “previously purchased content”

bilekas 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Because they were purchases, not rentals. Under no circumstances would a customer reasonably assume that their purchase would be revoked for reasons completely outside of their control.

cryptonym 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Agree... if they want to sell it, parent company must agree on forever licenses for each user. Regardless of reselling license getting cancelled.

throwaway87543 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Studio Canal directly got paid for each individual purchase. It isn't all on Sony, Studio Canal sold a product then took it away.

babypuncher 2 hours ago | parent [-]

They're both to blame. Studio Canal insisted on a licensing agreement that works this way, and Sony agreed to it to sell their content.

For Sony, the correct move here would have been to not list Studio Canal titles in the first place, and put out a very public statement saying that they aren't being listed until Studio Canal agrees to make purchased licenses perpetual as they should be.

Terr_ an hour ago | parent [-]

> Both to blame

IANAL but I think the US law approach is to rely on chaining, so the #1 blame is on Sony until Sony proves it isn't.

1. Consumers who were damaged sue Sony for damages.

2. If Sony loses, Sony sues Studio Canal for damages.

3. If Studio Canal loses... ?

matwood 20 minutes ago | parent [-]

Correct. In theory, Sony should have warranted that they have the rights to sell the thing the way they sold it. If they didn't have the rights to sell a movie perpetually, then that's on them.