| ▲ | dismalaf a day ago |
| US tech wages are insanely inflated compared to, well, everywhere. |
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| ▲ | genxy a day ago | parent | next [-] |
| US tech wages are what everyone should be making. Tech looks high compared to everyone else, but it is more that everyone else's wages got suppressed. |
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| ▲ | gruez a day ago | parent [-] | | >Tech looks high compared to everyone else, but it is more that everyone else's wages got suppressed. Where do you draw the line? Maybe everyone should be earning $10M/year like AI researchers, and anything to the contrary means it's "suppressed"? | | |
| ▲ | __turbobrew__ a day ago | parent | next [-] | | > Where do you draw the line You can own a house and support a family of 5 on a single income and retire at 65. Where I live that is only really possible for SWE, lawyers, doctors, and execs. | | |
| ▲ | bpt3 a day ago | parent [-] | | You're welcome to move to one of the many, many places in the US where it's still possible. | | |
| ▲ | __turbobrew__ a day ago | parent | next [-] | | I live in Canada, so no Im not. | |
| ▲ | jgon a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | That's actually a really great suggestion. It would be great if you could throw together a list of these many, many places and post it here, so we could think about what sort of moves we could make. Thanks in advance! | | |
| ▲ | bpt3 a day ago | parent [-] | | Large portions of the rust belt, midwest, and deep south for starters. There are many, many lists of the most affordable cities in the US. I see Buffalo, Dayton, and Wichita on them regularly as specific examples. | | |
| ▲ | jgon a day ago | parent [-] | | Sweet thanks, I guess I never really thought about moving to the Rust Belt and then taking part in its thriving economy to get the sort of job that would allow me to support a family of 5 and own a house on a single income. I would guess at this point you'd probably try and say something about remote work and arbitraging high west coast tech salaries against low cost-of-living, but really that just gets us back to the other poster's point about this stuff not being obtainable anymore. Certainly, to take just a quick example, not in one of the cities you listed, Wichita, with a median individual income (as specified by the other poster) of between $49k and $35k for men and women, and a median house sale price of $243k (up 4.3% over the last year!), giving you an affordability ratio of roughly 5-7x. Chapman university labels that sort of ratio as "Severly Unaffordable". Whoops! Guess it isn't quite as easy as your smug comment made it out to be... https://datausa.io/profile/geo/wichita-ks -> link for median single income data in Wichita https://www.redfin.com/city/19878/KS/Wichita/housing-market -> link for median house sale price https://www.chapman.edu/communication/_files/Demographia-Int... -> Link to Chapman study, income affordability ratio labeling is on page 6 of the study. | | |
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| ▲ | Chinjut a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Fine by me. Let's give it a shot. | |
| ▲ | sublinear a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'm pretty sure they meant ~100k-200k in a housing market away from the coasts... oh wait that's already true! | |
| ▲ | tikhonj a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | bthrn a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I once watched a Vice President at an all hands explain that the company's decision to have non-competitive wages was because "it's not that we're underpaying, it's that everybody else is overpaying. If you want to go somewhere else to get overpaid, that's not going to last." I think about that every now and again and chuckle. |
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| ▲ | rootsudo 20 hours ago | parent [-] | | That’s beautiful, so many ways to turn that phrase into a painful questioning event. |
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| ▲ | a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | snapcaster a day ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I hate this crab in a bucket framing. It's so anti-working person. Why isn't it that wages are insanely deflated compared to the US? |
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| ▲ | noirscape a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Because the conversation is incomplete if we're talking internationally. The cost of living in the US is much higher compared to most other first world/rich countries for one. Count up someone's basic living expenses in the US and those in another country (so taxes, rent and fixed costs) and the US often ends up much higher in terms of absolute values. In other countries, taxes usually soak up more of those fixed costs, reducing them more across the board for most people. The US also has very little protection against surprise fees at checkout (to the annoyance of non-Americans when ordering stuff online from the US), so a lot of stores sell on higher markups relatively speaking, making the same goods more expensive in the US. There's also healthcare, which needs little elaboration because the US is to my knowledge the single most expensive country to live in when it comes to that. That applies to the US as a whole; it's why someone can say they're making 300k USD a year, say they're apparently barely able to stay afloat and then the rest of the world pretty much regards the US economy as being fundamentally wrong in some form. In most places, 300k USD a year is living in the upper class (as in, "work this job for a decade and you can retire early" money), not scraping the bottom of the barrel. By modern conversion standards, that's about 263k euros, or about 21k euros each month. Then there's the tech sector specific problems. San Francisco is expensive to live in, and most US tech companies are in SF. Take the US cost of living problem, amplify it specifically for the tech sector (which is usually not talked about, since it's hard to vocalize). Second is that the US tech sector has more creative ideas and money than business sense - throwing money at a problem like the purse doesn't exist is a very US tech thing that doesn't apply anywhere else. It means that it's possible to hire people at far more inflated prices than the job is realistically worth. Whether a wage is good or bad is pretty much entirely dependent on the local economy. Someone making 2000 EUR a month in Europe makes just above/right below the poverty line. Someone making 2000 EUR a month in Brazil is living an upper class lifestyle. That's an extreme comparison, but is a good indicator. | | |
| ▲ | bluGill a day ago | parent | next [-] | | One other point: tastes expand to fit your income. You learn how much many you get every month and then how to spend that much. My local Mercedes dealer will lease me a car for $4000/month (+ insurance) - somebody must have enough money to make that payment. If that is too much maybe the 18 year old Honda Civic with 300k miles for $1000 (cash price) is more your style? Probably you fit in between those. (note that we are talking about the US so we can assume there is no useful transit) | |
| ▲ | 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | t-3 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | People can achieve a high standard of living anywhere in the world on half or a quarter of what goes for normal in SV tech. The valuations of these companies are even more inflated than their wages, and most of them aren't even profitable and don't have good prospects. Bubbles benefit some people, but they're a sign of dysfunction and I don't believe that the proper reaction to a sign of deep societal dysfunction is to celebrate that a few thousands of people can make a lot of money out of it. | | |
| ▲ | linuxftw a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Depends on what you qualify as 'standard of living.' There's no amount of money I would accept to live in many parts of the world. To have the same size property and home I have today in France or Germany would be likely 10's of millions of Euros. My property is worth well less than $1M. | |
| ▲ | SoftTalker a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | > anywhere in the world Anywhere outside of SV, really. |
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| ▲ | outside1234 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | One thing to consider is that people in France (for example) are actually getting paid 45% more than you see in their salary because the government is taking that invisibly from the employer for social services. | |
| ▲ | dismalaf a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The rest of the world has educated people willing to work for less. Wages are just supply/demand. I'm not saying either is right or wrong, it's just an observation. | |
| ▲ | a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | drstewart a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | He told you why: because it's in America. You can bet if Europe paid those wages and the US didn't we'd be hearing about wage suppression and underpayment instead. |
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