| ▲ | Arkhaine_kupo 7 hours ago |
| > Aren't monopolies is what we end up by default if have no regulation at all? No. Monopolies are only inevitable if the goods aren't elastic, if there is a large cost of entry into the market, or if its a market you can create a moat that is unsurmountable. Many markets don't have that even with 0 regulation, but might have second order problems like firms creating unsafe products for example. But in general regulations almost always even unindentedly raise the cost to enter the market. If you make a new regulation that food needs to be safe, then the company needs to pay a safety inspection that a small home-made recipe might not be able to afford (to give a simple example). At the same time, we now have uber large corporations due to non elastic parts of supply chain (like land) or moats that are insurmountable (like access to US capital). In which case, the FCC should break up monopolies as the current market is not catering to end users and consumers but to owners, which is why the Stock market has been in a never ending bull run. |
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| ▲ | kalaksi 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Don't bigger companies also often benefit from scale in multiple ways so it gets harder and harder for newcomers to compete? And if a newcomer does manage to get a foothold, it might get bought. |
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| ▲ | Arkhaine_kupo 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Don't bigger companies also often benefit from scale in multiple ways so it gets harder and harder for newcomers to compete? That is one of the ways a Moat can happen and a monopoly can occur. For example if you were the only person with a loom and everyone else had to make jumpers by hand, you could make them so cheap they would have to close down. In some markets those ways you can benefit from scale exist, in others there are drawbacks. In many cases those advantages only exist due to either regulation or lac thereof. For example ways companies might have an advantage is by manufacturing in cheaper countries, but that only works because those workers have less rights and the cost of transporting is not properly taxed. Carbon taxes on shipping would make manufacturing in China pretty comparatively priced to many european countries. But if you let them contaminate the ocean with crude oil boats, then their manufacturing prowess and cheaper labour cost will offset the shipping cost and destroy a newcomer. These are very basic examples and they all require nuance but hope it helps to explain it a bit more. Another example is restaurants, you used to have some advantages from being a chain, but you would still constantly see mom and pop joints compete and even win. But as rent prices keep increasing (the non elastic market of the ground under the lease), suddenly the advantages of scale start beating the disadvantages of worse food and service. | |
| ▲ | Tangurena2 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | MS did a lot of lobbying to prevent European governments from trying to migrate to Linux and/or OpenDocument. Groklaw was a website that was started by a paralegal to try to understand, explain and report on the SCO lawsuit - who benefited and how they benefited. It ended up expanding into the EU anti-trust action against Microsoft and OpenDocument (and how OpenOffice was created as a trojan horse to defang OpenDocument). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groklaw |
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| ▲ | KoolKat23 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| There is always imperfect information, there is no such thing as a perfect market and as a result regulation will always be needed to curb the excesses such as monopoly. Even if we had perfect information, humans remain irrational. This is a simple fact of life and the universe. |
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| ▲ | throwwwll 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
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| ▲ | philipallstar 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Spoken like a true 120-year who trusts blindly everything he hears online from Rothbard This ad hominem stuff is genuinely worthless. | | |
| ▲ | maybewhenthesun 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don't think so. Because the theories about elastic markets and monopolies do have a high 'spherical frictionless cow` smell. And they are posed here as gospel. So while it might be a bit of an ad hominem to frame someone as a 120 year old it does succinctly point out a problem and hence adds information. | | |
| ▲ | philipallstar 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Things "having a smell" is not an argument, and they weren't posed as gospel. I've yet to see anyone counter the basic points of that post, because they look pretty solid. Happy if you have a non-vibes based rebuttal. | |
| ▲ | hypeatei 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > And they are posed here as gospel The same could be said for people who suggest regulation for every problem that comes up, even for problems that were caused by regulation. Maybe we have our blindspots, but the "regulate everything" crowd is much louder and more prevalent on HN than the free market absolutists. | | |
| ▲ | throwwwll 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Here's another ad-hominem (to another poster), cause you guys just cannot argue in good faith: Spoken like a true American who had long-forgotten nuance exists. |
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| ▲ | Arkhaine_kupo 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I mean, has there any empirical evidence disproven any of those base assumptions? In econ the easiest part is to create a model, the hardest part is seeing it crash against reality. But the basis of monopolies seems to be pretty thoroughly tested. The biggest issues you have now are Chesterton Fence's. Were its hard to know what laws and regulations are therefore safety, parity and economic performance and ones are only creating friction with no benefit due to years of laws being put on top of other laws | | |
| ▲ | throwwwll 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | > where are the proofs > I know "chesterton fence", I smart | | |
| ▲ | Arkhaine_kupo 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Went from nice to rude in no time. 4chan greentext style over substance is cute, but its outdated and wasnt that funny a decade ago if you have nothing to add, then why reply? | | |
| ▲ | throwwwll 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | I have never been nice, but I admit I have no better literary device to concisely express my sentiment towards your flawed position, to put it nicely. I am pro-regulation, where regulation for me is busting monopolies, preventing tragedy of commons, setting necessary quality checks, forbidding forced labor. I am against regulation, when it's chat control, 100% tarrifs on whatever, forbidding working on Friday past 17:00 and completely on Weekends. < Why do I even have to point this out? There's no nuance remaining in this world, people (the proselytizing nerd types) emotionally attach themselves to sophistry that is the spelled-out economic theories, while completely disregarding common sense. Missing forest for trees. In short - fuck America. |
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