A counter point is that if you are stuck in a 50/50 position, out sourcing the decision to some random other thing can break the dead lock. Like flipping to a random page on a book and going with the first word you see that is positive or negative (Bibliomancy).

The occult language can make it sound mysterious but it can also sometimes just be a cover for a delegation of decisions.

▲

yubblegum 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

It's a weak counter point in that it does not consider the long term effects.

Using I Ching to make decisions is like using an LLM to think. At some point, you will atrophy the faculty of independent decision making.

You are also neglecting that I Ching outcomes come with text and commentary that are by definition designed to affect your mindset -- "the image" -- (for the good of course but see below for that). This is precisly what Dr. Jung was saying about trifling with the occult. It affects you at an sub/un-conscious level - this is not some random book. It is the I Ching, and like all world scripture it has a textual potency that affects its readers.

If you are stuck at a 50/50 position, just throw a single coin. Average 3 if you must. Spare yourself the commentaries.

Correct and effective use of the I Ching requires a degree of maturity and self development (think Carl Jung) that is surely lacking in most of us when we are first introduced to this occult artefact in 20th and 21st centuries. That is because in this age of facile information we get our hands on matter that in previous eras were obtained after spending years at the feet of some guru or master!

▲

kindkang2024 a day ago | parent | next [-]

I don’t think “just throw a single coin” really captures how I Ching divination traditionally works.

The classical Dayan method is based on human participation through division and transformation. It is the only divination method recorded in the Book of Changes. Through repeated divisions, six yin or yang lines are formed, together forming one gua. To me, this feels closer to life: we make choices, exchange one thing for another, and move from one situation into the next.

Maybe the gua is simply a manifestation that helps us see the situation more clearly. Some people believe in it, and others do not. To me, its wisdom is a bit like a zero-knowledge proof: it reveals a pattern without fully exposing the mystery behind it.

It’s great to see people discussing this. I’m a huge fan of the I Ching and built a few websites around it, including https://knowunknowable.love and https://ichingdao.love, where I explore the I Ching, Daoism, and Mozi.

	▲	yubblegum a day ago \| parent [-]
		I didn't say that is how the I Ching works. Participation in the process is most certainly an important aspect of binding the psyche of the questioner to the results, which supports the view that the stalk method is indeed the way to consult the book, as that requires contemplating the question while going through the process.

▲

fragmede a day ago | parent | prev [-]

That's fascinating. The I Ching is centuries old. It's survived this long. The concept that knowledge should be witheld from people until they're ready is so anthical to our current beliefs. Or at least mine. It's history says that's not an invalid way of thinking about the world, so I'll have to think on that.

	▲	yubblegum a day ago \| parent [-]
		> The concept that knowledge should be witheld from people until they're ready is so anthical to our current beliefs. It is not knowledge that is witheld. It is text. I also propose to you to consider the thought that true knowledge is only obtained by experience. The fundamental issue with psychologically potent text and images is that it can induce convictions based on misreading and misunderstanding. IFF you can exercise the necessary self control to avoid premature utility of the I Ching, the entire work is of course a profound metaphysical model of human reality through the lens of Taoist sages based on a simple and elegant axiomatic framework that uses the concept of state-transitions & numbers 2 (forces) and 3 (places) to develop a comprehensive metaphysical system to consider "all things under the heaven". > It's survived this long. Mao tried getting rid of it. (I don't agree with all this btw, but just fyi.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Olds

▲

sublinear 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

This perspective always fascinates me. I'm not trying to be negative, but am genuinely curious.

If you're truly split like that, why is any ceremony necessary? Just pick one. Does every choice have to be explained? Are you doing this to amuse yourself?

If you don't delegate to a source of randomness, do you feel guilty or ruminate about why you were un/successful? Are you afraid of your own thoughts misleading you once the outcome is clear?