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jackyinger 3 hours ago

To bluntly put it in a nutshell, and state the obvious:

If you don’t understand the problem you can’t be sure that the computer does.

avaer 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

As a programmer I definitely get annoyed when I see code and I don't understand what it does.

But I also definitely don't understand the problem if I can't get the computer to understand it, with tests.

In some sense I always considered programming to be more trustworthy than maths arguments without the certainty of a solver proof.

With all of these questions in the air, epistemology might be making a comeback.

therobots927 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Tests only work for a limited set of programming verification. In many cases you don’t actually know what the output for any given input should be, so there’s no way of verifying the AI-generated code. You just kind of have to trust it. The only exception I can think of is robotics and quantitative trading. Which have already been extensively utilizing AI.

akoboldfrying an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Well, if you can formalise the problem statement (this is the hard part) sufficiently well that the computer can produce a proof, you can be very sure the proof is sound.

A fundamental property of any formal proof is that it can be checked by a fairly stupid machine, automatically, because every step is a simple mechanical operation that names one of a handful of axioms and refers to a handful of earlier steps, the truth of which has already been established. So while coming up with a proof may require genius-level thinking, checking an existing fully fleshed out proof is simple -- just potentially very tedious because of the sheer number of steps.

That said, a typical human-written proof omits many steps considered "obvious" to a trained mathematician. Converting this to a formal proof involves interpreting what the original author "must have meant", which requires a lot of expertise and can go wrong -- or it may reveal that there is some inconsistency in the original claim itself.

bsder 21 minutes ago | parent [-]

> checking an existing fully fleshed out proof is simple

The controversy around Mochizuki and the "abc Conjecture" proof is a contrary example.

seanmcc 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Almost another layer in the peer review process in the best case right? Just a different kind of peer you have to review.

wbl an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Look up the story of Flyspeck for this taking an entire career.

therobots927 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

So… more peer review backlog. That sounds fun. Oh, you want someone to review your paper, Mr phd in mathematics with 20 years of experience? Get in line behind chatGPT.

kimjune01 43 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

lean compiles or it doesnt