| ▲ | dc3k 7 hours ago |
| it should not be legal for the product page to say “purchase” or “buy” when in reality you’re only renting it with a to be determined end date |
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| ▲ | sib 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| So... I used to work in the "digital movie & TV selling" industry. Our product detail pages, like pretty much all our competitors, had language on the call-to-action buttons that said "purchase" (and also, as an alternative, "rent," for 48- or 72-hour viewing). At one point, about 10 years ago, one of the major Hollywood studios came to us and required us to change that because they believed that exactly this sort of thing would happen and we would all be setting ourselves up for liability because consumers would rightfully assume that that meant they owned the movie "forever." |
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| ▲ | dathinab 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| and this should include musics and similar in games (excluding stuff like sessional content) if you sell a game you should have to have bought a license to use the music (and similar) in the game permanently (for given game sold, new sold revision can change what they contain but only if there isn't deceptive advertisement and it's very clearly labeled that it's a different revision/the content changed!). |
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| ▲ | autoexec 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Single player games putting out "seasonal content" is kind of obnoxious too though so I wouldn't exclude them all. One example is the Moogle Chocobo Carnival and Assassin's Festival in Final Fantasy XV which players had to work very hard to patch back into the game after it was removed. The limited time Stellar Blade Summer Event wasn't nearly as impressive as the carnival, but it was still a black mark on a game that was otherwise refreshingly free from bullshit. |
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| ▲ | xboxnolifes 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That's a big can of worms, since it applies to approximately 100% of all software. You only ever buy a license that allows you to use software, almost never actually buy software. |
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| ▲ | yellowapple 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm quite alright with that can of worms being opened for software. Enthused, even. | |
| ▲ | fluoridation 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Copyright law has been playing semantic games with "buy" and "own" for decades. When I buy(1) something, it's mine, and I can do what I want with it. The person whom I buy it from doesn't have the right to rescind my rights over the thing I bought. When I buy(2) a software license, does the seller have the right to claw back the license? If not, then buy(1) and buy(2) are conceptually identical, and there's no difference between buying a license and buying the (copy of the) software. If yes or unknown, then buying(2) is not buying(1), as it does not grant ownership, but something else; not even over the license. So what kind of transaction is buying(2) something? What do you get in exchange for money? It's clearly not a good, so is it a service? Is continued permission to use the software a service? Then if that service is interrupted the consumer should be entitled to some kind of reimbursement from the provider, right? Because otherwise the provider has an incentive to stop the service. | | |
| ▲ | LocalH 20 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Clearly, in Sony's case here it is buy(2), and they've reached into people's accounts and removed content (even using the term "purchased" in the notice email). This should be criminal. If the sale copy says "buy" "own" "purchase" then they must not be allowed to remove your license to that content by any means. I'm fine with them removing content from storefronts. I'm even okay with them saying "you're responsible for your downloaded copies, if we decide to discontinue licensing you won't be able to redownload". I'm not fine with them saying "buy" "own" "purchase" and then coming in later "oh we decided to change the licensing situation and so you no longer have access to what you have 'purchased'". That is theft, more than copyright infringement ever could be. |
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| ▲ | jeroenhd 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | And if that one-time purchased software stops working at an arbitrary date, it should be subject to the same rules. Especially online software or software requiring servers to run. You can still offer limited-time subscriptions, of course, and you can extend the minimum deadline for your server-dependent software to free as often as you want, just make sure people know what the deal is when they buy your software. DVDs and other media also aren't yours to buy, they're just licenses and a physical container to use that license. You can buy software the same way you can buy a DVD, and you can rent software the same way you can rent a movie on a digital storefront. | |
| ▲ | sidewndr46 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm reasonably certain when I ordered linux CDs in the 90s, no one put a limit on the time frame I could be using them |
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| ▲ | b112 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yes, 100%, and that end date should be very clearly listed too. |
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| ▲ | munk-a 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Oftentimes that end date is not clearly knowable and can't be communicated explicitly, but consumers should still be aware of the fact that their rights are limited. While the Gaben lives valve will store many people's games - when the Gaben dies... well, it's going to suck - but it'll probably take a while to completely suck, we'll probably go through drawn out enshittification first. This outcome seems inevitable[1] but it is likely a fair distance off. 1. Unless you write a damned clear company charter, Gabe, get on that. | | |
| ▲ | jeroenhd 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Companies selling these titles should know a minimum end date. Even if contracts don't get renewed, it's unlikely they will only have the rights for less than a year. If that minimum drives customers away, these companies should put more work into ensuring their minimum availability is a good deal. |
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| ▲ | LoganDark 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Renting what? The non-exclusive, revocable license? Because that's what purchase or buy means. |
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| ▲ | skywhopper 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | No, that’s not what “purchase” or “buy” means. | | |
| ▲ | akramachamarei 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | It literally is. "Verb "purchase (third-person singular simple present purchases, present participle purchasing, simple past and past participle purchased) "To buy, obtain by payment of a price in money or its equivalent." https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/purchase "Verb "buy (third-person singular simple present buys, present participle buying, simple past bought, past participle bought or (archaic, rare, dialectal) boughten) "(transitive, ditransitive) To obtain (something) in exchange for money or goods." https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/buy#English |
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| ▲ | mistyvales 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Pretty sure the Terms of Use say just that. They should update the language on the frontend though. |
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| ▲ | makeitdouble 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Have you ever bought a ticket to a concert ? what did you actually own ? I get the feeling, but this whole outrage about what words mean is sterile if you don't actually engage with what is sold here, by who from who, what was the contract, how it was setup and why. How do you feel about the right holders who also didn't bother providing simple "buy, download and it's forever yours" avenues to get that content ? Or are you just happy being outraged and will go back to your daily life afterwards ? (that's what I'll do, because I was already renting stuff when video tapes were a thing, and I see the current situation as a logical equilibrium, including what happens on the seven seas) |
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| ▲ | charles_f 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Have you ever bought a ticket to a concert ? This comparison makes no sense. When you buy a ticket to a concert you fully expect to be allowed access to said concert. If it gets cancelled because this or that studio owns some random right you fully expect to be refunded. > I was already renting stuff when video tapes were a thing Good for you. These guys also propose rental with a rent button, and a purchase button for what you'd expect be purchasing the movie. Do you still not see what the issue is and why the debate on what word means is anything but sterile? > Or are you just happy being outraged and will go back to your daily life afterwards ? Wow, this is gratuitous and extremely belittling. I hope you feel good smelling your own farts. | | |
| ▲ | makeitdouble 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > This comparison makes no sense. When you buy a ticket to a concert you fully expect to be allowed access to said concert. If it gets cancelled because this or that studio owns some random right you fully expect to be refunded. You're explaining that while the ticket was a purchase, it had specific limitations and the vendor would follow a specific contract, with specific recourse for people in eligible cases. That's exactly what's happening with Playstation. Some people might not understand the contract, but we're decades into this now, it's time we're past "the button said 'buy'" discussions. | | |
| ▲ | charles_f 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | "Oh but they didn't read the fine prints so that's on them". What a great argument. To people, "buy" when in the context of a movie largely means owning the freaking thing. > we're past "the button said 'buy'" discussions. That's normalization of deviance. It's fine if you're fine with that scam, don't come onto people who aren't. |
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| ▲ | pessimizer 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Have you ever bought a ticket to a concert ? what did you actually own ? A ticket that would allow you entrance into a particular concert. Is this some sort of rhetorical question? I can't decipher what it's attempting to illustrate. |
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