Remix.run Logo
xvedejas 7 hours ago

In a working economy, an increase in demand for electricity would be met with an increase in investment and capacity, and (at least in the long-term) would benefit all electricity buyers. I'm sure there are market failures going on here in many places but it's not necessarily the case that you and the companies be on opposing sides. There are positive-sum solutions to a lot of these problems, if people are willing to consider them.

acdha 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The problem is that we don’t correctly price pollution: it’d be one thing if this boom meant acres of solar panels and wind turbines getting greenlit but in practice it means keeping some dirty plants online and building out new pollution capacity, sometimes completely illegally like what happened in Memphis.

All of this would go away overnight if we taxed carbon.

xvedejas 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Isn't most new capacity solar these days?

acdha 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

New is heavily solar, yes, but there’s still too much natural gas and the administration is deeply committed to returning the investment fossil fuel companies made in the president’s campaign so I wouldn’t bet on that continuing.

What’s more of a concern is coal being kept online just for data centers. Even if the national average drops, that’s a regional health risk where it happens.

https://www.powermag.com/power-demand-from-data-centers-keep...

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=67205

collabs 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That we know of?

Do you trust these tech bros to be truthful?

> Just south of the Tennessee-Mississippi state line sits dozens of unpermitted gas turbines that power xAI’s Colossus 2 data center while releasing smog-forming pollution, soot, and hazardous chemicals like formaldehyde. The tech company set up the de facto power plant with no permits, no public input, and no notice to nearby communities that will have to deal with the consequences.

https://www.selc.org/news/xai-built-an-illegal-power-plant-t...

xvedejas 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Sounds like a slam-dunk case for SELC?

csharpminor 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

“So glad we found a home for all of the Claudes!”

forlorn_mammoth 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> in the long term

being the key phrase. Until we get to that long term, the less price sensitve buyer can buy up all available goods.

for example, all of the gas turbines needed to generate electricity.

so it is impossible to invest in capacity for non-datacenter uses, because the raw ingredients have already been bought up by the data centers.

effectively, at current rate of investment, > 90% of investment into new power generation goes to data centers. That doesn't leave much for any kind of other economic growth, since all of our economic growth depends on electricity.

Joker_vD 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's quite amusing how easily people fall into the trap of Malthusianism when talking about water/electricity consumption of certain industries.

doom2 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> In a working economy, an increase in demand for electricity would be met with an increase in investment and capacity, and (at least in the long-term) would benefit all electricity buyers.

The same should apply to memory and GPU manufacturers and yet I have seen no commitments from them to increase supply, so the end result is that consumer electronics are becoming ever more expensive compared to even just a year ago. That doesn't feel like a working economy to me.

arjie 2 hours ago | parent [-]

This is an unusual comment to read because many manufacturers are public and therefore have released their expansion plans to shareholders (and therefore the public). Most recently, Micron is planning to build much more because their clients have made purchase agreements to 2030: https://www.aol.com/articles/micron-just-locked-100-billion-...

doom2 31 minutes ago | parent [-]

> The hyperscalers building AI infrastructure are willing to pre-commit to HBM and DDR5 capacity through the decade because they cannot afford a repeat of the 2024 shortage.

Unless I'm reading it wrong, the article makes it seem like all that new capacity will be reserved for AI infra, not consumer electronics or personal computing, which is what my comment was specifically about. Happy to be proven wrong if Micron has said anything about reviving the Crucial brand or Sony committing to lowering console pricing because they (or their memory supplier) secured capacity.

amanaplanacanal 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Don't all states have public utility commissions that regulate electricity provisioning? I don't know if the market has much to do with anything since it's all government regulation.