| ▲ | throwawayb2025 20 hours ago |
| Just curious to know what is acceptable proportionate response for: 1. What was done on October 7? Assuming that some kind of response from Israel was acceptable. 2. Against Israel for what Israel is doing now? Assuming that Israel is over reacting. Maybe if we can come with a framework for what is acceptable, world can force certain behavior. Edited for formatting. |
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| ▲ | tonks 19 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| It's always analysis of Israel's response and zero soul searching on the Palestinian side. |
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| ▲ | HDThoreaun 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Oct 7th was a border security failure. The appropriate response was reinforcing the border and ensuring that gazans cant escape. Letting the gazans out was one of the biggest security blunders of the 21st century. Israel knew the government of gaza wants israel wiped off the map, this stuff isnt a surprise or anything. Israel absolutely had the capability of keeping the gazans in, they blew it. I see that this is close to victim blaming, but the thing is that both sides are victims here, all the arguments involve victim blaming. Israel already tried occupying gaza, they knew it doesnt work and would just make things worse. Arguments can certainly be made about the hostages, but I think its clear that the gazan war was not really about the hostages. |
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| ▲ | throw4684478 17 hours ago | parent [-] | | [dead] | | |
| ▲ | HDThoreaun 17 hours ago | parent [-] | | > On the 7th Oct, Gazans took selfies in front of a tank on the border where you can see that the gun still had its cap on. The soldiers, confronted with a mob dressed as civilians, did not open fire, and were subsequently dragged out and killed. They were understaffed. Look, Im not some expert on border control so Im not going to claim I know what the cure here is. I do know that israel is a wealthy country with mandatory military service though. They had the manpower to staff the wall with guards with some sort of non lethal crowd control. Gaza is a prison camp, prisons never seem to throw up their hands and claim its impossible to keep the prisoners in. I understand the Israelis need to keep the gazans locked up. The israelis shouldve understood that people dont like being locked up though and they shouldve prepared better for attempted jail breaks. | | |
| ▲ | throw4684478 16 hours ago | parent [-] | | [dead] | | |
| ▲ | HDThoreaun 16 hours ago | parent [-] | | > they just need Gaza to not attack them The only way to ensure this is by not letting them leave, so yes, they do need to lock them up to ensure their security. Egypt has no interest in taking gaza which is why Israel feels the need to keep them locked up. The gazans are indigenous to israel which is why they are israels responsibility until someone else takes them. Obviously it would be nice for israel if the prisoners never tried to break out but that isnt a realistic outcome, and Israel knows it. If youre going to set up a prison camp you need to heavily guard the border or bad things will happen. Im not saying the initial invasion afterwards is immoral, it was just a bad decision that wouldnt have been needed if the israelis just protected the border. It was a bad decision because it predictably led to numerous atrocities which was exactly what hamas wanted. Israel is without a doubt less safe now then they were on oct 6 when they were close to opening diplomatic relations with all the middle east countries other than iran. | | |
| ▲ | throw853367 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | [dead] | | |
| ▲ | HDThoreaun 14 hours ago | parent [-] | | All of the gazans are descendants of refugees from the nakba. Its not like anyone drew a shape, the israelis suggested the palestinians go somewhere else so they did. But no other country let them in so now israel is forced to deal with the fallout. Obviously if someone from jordan showed up thats not israels problem, but when israel refuses to let the refugees they are responsible for have their own state they remain responsible for the refugees. |
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