| ▲ | 9dev 4 hours ago |
| Is that so? In Germany for example, you have a legal right to return anything you purchased via a remote means of communication - so e.g., the internet, or a phone call - free of charge, within two weeks, and it must be simple to do so; if a vendor tries to obfuscate how to cancel a purchase contract, you can simply write them an email. |
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| ▲ | keiferski 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| yeah most US companies have return policies of 30 days or more, no questions asked. |
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| ▲ | pwinnski 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The word "most" is doing a lot here. Europe guarantees consumer rights by law, while the US relies on companies adopting the practices voluntarily. Most do, but larger companies more universally than smaller, and it's by no means universal. | | |
| ▲ | keiferski 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | It's the reality for the vast majority of larger companies. Quibbling with word choice is really not a good argument. | | |
| ▲ | jeromegv 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | We are talking of entrepreneurship and new companies, what small business are required to do for returns/refunds in the US is definitely not ahead of Europe for consumer protection. It's not word choice, you are just making the wrong argument. | |
| ▲ | lompad 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Try canceling your NYT subscription. | | |
| ▲ | r4indeer 39 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Let me support your argument by telling you what you just reminded me of... I was briefly subscribed to the NYT from Germany. To my surprise, I couldn't cancel online, but had to call. (The EU has a law which requires that if you can subscribe online, you must be able to cancel online.) They have national numbers for many countries, but they're just forwarders to the same call center, with notably mangled audio quality presumably due to multiple lossy compression algorithms applied at each hop of the call. Additionally, there was lots of background noise when I got connected to a rep. Over this barely usable line, I was now asked to spell out my email address, which naturally took multiple attempts of painfully slow spelling before the rep was able to locate my account. (My very limited knowledge of the NATO alphabet didn't help.) Of course, I then had to go through the spiel of declining alternative offers and providing a reason for my cancellation (all of which I never had to do in Germany before) before they finally confirmed it. Yeah, I'm glad about consumer protection law in the EU. | |
| ▲ | Saline9515 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | The same exists in the EU, French Le Monde (NYT local equivalent) required you for a long time to send a registered letter costing 7€ and a trip to the post office to cancel your subscription. |
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| ▲ | tyg13 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | most large companies, maybe, but small-to-medium-sized businesses can and will tell you to take a hike. there are no consumer protections in the US regarding returns beyond the goodwill of the company |
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| ▲ | WarmWash 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| One of the major reasons US consumers shop with megacorp over small business is because of the no hassle returns. |
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| ▲ | 9dev 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Exactly my point. In Germany I can order from the smallest of webshops without even reading their return policy, because I am guaranteed favourable terms by law. | | |
| ▲ | ahlCVA 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This isn't without downsides though: As somebody with a niche technical hobby, it is hard for me to order from many suppliers because they understandably don't want to deal with consumer protection laws and thus exclude B2C transactions outright ("Verkauf nur an Gewerbetreibende"). I would be fine with waiving my right to returns but this is not possible on purpose, so my only options are to shop somewhere else (often not possible) or found a company (not possible because it would be Liebhaberei - "Running a company without intent to make profits"). | |
| ▲ | toast0 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | In the US, if the remote merchant doesn't accept a return (or is non responsive), a credit card chargeback would be in order. The customer almost always wins those. And the merchant always has to pay a fee for the chargeback, even when they win, so they're incentivized to avoid them. The merchant agreement isn't as effective as a well enforced law, but it's pretty close. | |
| ▲ | frugalmail 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | So the person that wants to sell that ultra-unique item that isn't produced by mega-corp, and the person that wants to buy that ultra-unique item despite unfavorable return policies never gets their needs met. | | |
| ▲ | 9dev 35 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Why would that be the case? Maybe you’re thinking of customised or commissioned items, which are an exception explicitly called out in the law and require a defect by the seller to return (so you can’t just return eg a painting made for you on a whim, but if it arrives damaged, you can) |
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| ▲ | tchalla 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| What happens after 2 weeks? |
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| ▲ | 9dev 37 minutes ago | parent [-] | | You loose the right to change your mind and return the goods without any reason given, but of course you still have warranty of 6 months; if anything breaks with the product in that time, you can request the seller to make up by offering a repair, replacement, or refund (whatever they deem most appropriate), and while the seller can contest that, they are obliged to prove it’s your fault, not theirs. After that timeframe, this obligation reverses. | | |
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