| ▲ | whazor 6 hours ago |
| In Germany it might be easier to open a company remotely via Estonia |
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| ▲ | ExpertAdvisor01 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| This is pretty bad advice as your company will be dual resident with Germany having the right to tax . That means you pay German taxes + double amount of compliance ( because you have to file everything in Germany+ Estonia ). |
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| ▲ | earcar 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That way, AFAIK, the German government will determine that the "place of effective management" is Germany, and tax you also there. Double taxation is not better. |
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| ▲ | moondowner 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | DE & EE should have a double taxation agreement. https://www.fin.ee/en/double-taxation-agreements | |
| ▲ | ma2kx 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I would say that depends of the company's legal form. If you have an "AG" or "GmbH" you get double taxed anyway, one time the company and than again your salary. So if you have an Estonian equevilant of a GmbH/AG your company will get taxed by Estonia and your salary by Germany. The Estonian E-Residency Website at least confirms my assumption but in case of Germany I could be very well wrong of course... https://www.e-resident.gov.ee/understanding-cross-border-tax... | | |
| ▲ | b3orn 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You don't get double taxed, you get taxed on your salary and your company gets taxed on whatever profit remains after paying salaries. | |
| ▲ | ExpertAdvisor01 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I think you misunderstood double taxation .
You probably understood it as taxation on corporate and personal level.
But in this context it means taxation in two jurisdiction (Estonia,Germany) | |
| ▲ | notpushkin 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > So if you have an Estonian equevilant of a GmbH/AG your company will get taxed by Estonia and your salary by Germany Estonian CIT is 0%. If you pay dividends (which is not required), or if you pay director’s salary (optional if you’re a one-man company without a ton of admin), those will be taxed in Estonia. If you only pay yourself for your actual services – no taxes in Estonia. Germany might tax your Estonian company if they determine the company is a German resident. Check with your accountant. (IANAL) |
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| ▲ | noxvilleza 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Have multiple friends who have done an Estonian OÜ despite being primarily German. No issues on this tax side. | | |
| ▲ | ExpertAdvisor01 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | If they are still a German tax resident , they are committing tax evasion .
§ 1 Abs. 1 KStG | | |
| ▲ | egorfine 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It doesn't really matter. If you do business in Germany you are evading taxes just by the fact of doing business. Everything and anything you make belongs to the government. It is an unfortunate loophole in the law that temporarily permits you to steal some of your profit back from the government where it rightfully belongs. Yeah, this is sarcasm, but not really. The practical reality is that it simply makes no sense to incorporate in Germany. For example, the OP missed six months of opportunity just to please the bureaucracy and it's not even the end of it. | | |
| ▲ | esterna 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | While I won't dispute that 6 months is outrageous, OP has not spent them to "please the bureaucracy", they spent them to escape personal liability should the company go bankrupt. The rest of the post is bemoaning the fact the German government won't let them also permanently reduce the company liability below 25k. | |
| ▲ | notanormalnerd 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > OP missed six months of opportunity OP missed six months of opportunities because he is an idiot, that has been scammed by a tax consultancy that is interested in his money. He should have setup a UG, start the business and invest into building a GmbH. | |
| ▲ | ExpertAdvisor01 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | If you don't like the laws/rules then just leave Germany .
There is no justification for tax evasion . | | |
| ▲ | egorfine an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | > If you don't like the laws/rules then just leave Germany Or change something. But yeah, I agree that leaving a country that you don't like is a good solution. I did that myself. > There is no justification for tax evasion The basics of philosophy behind taxation state exactly the opposite: it is an obligation of a business to evade as much tax as possible - as long as it is legal. | |
| ▲ | blacklion 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It is how Russia become what it is: we all be said «If you don't like new law/regulation, go to your beloved USA, you are not a patriot and must be punished». I'm sorry, but Germany is democratic country, and citizen of the country can choose by definition. Leave your motherland because your government is crazy in one way or another? It is nonsense. In reality, sometimes people need to do it (because it becomes too dangerous to stay), but it should not be this way. In any country. |
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| ▲ | noxvilleza 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | What if there were multiple (2+) founders of a company, and some lived in Estonia? I think in one case they had a Croatian co-founder as well. | | |
| ▲ | ExpertAdvisor01 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | This will most likely result in Permanent establishment (PE) in Germany (e.g due to fixed place of business).
That means Germany will tax the company anything which is attributable to the German guy. |
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| ▲ | dgellow 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| No, it’s generally a pretty terrible idea. Germany applies taxes based on the place where a company is managed. If you live in Germany and remotely manage your Estonian company then you’re expected to pay your corporate and other company taxes in Germany. The overhead of managing the international situation is more complicated than opening a company in Germany to be honest |
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| ▲ | notanormalnerd 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| You should Google "Place of effective management" A lot of the entrepreneurs I meet become tax & social insurance fraudsters as soon as I mention this, because they think they can setup a company somewhere but live in Spain, without paying or registering companies here. |
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| ▲ | ccozan 24 minutes ago | parent [-] | | yes because you are handling 100s of milions and you are some sort of public face then you get targeted. But if you are some noname making maybe up to a few mils per year income, nobody is going to chase you and prove you are avoiding local taxation. You are always "in a short holiday trip" :). |
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