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october8140 4 hours ago

Is this fraud?

jcgrillo 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Isn't everything these days? It's all gotten so gross.

matheusmoreira 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Yeah. It's so demoralizing, seeing all these people make fortunes while honest people scrape by. It feels like getting in on the grift is the only way to make it.

idle_zealot 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Would it matter if the bets were real and they picked the 0.00001% big winners to feature in the ad? Would that be less fraudulent in any meaningful sense, would it have a different impact on the world?

Is the real crime here that they were too lazy to lie with selective facts?

jmilloy 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

In the US, the FTC is very clear that faking or purchasing testimonials is illegal. Fabricating, purchasing, or misrepresenting customer experience is deceptive advertising and is a form of fraud. On the other hand, selecting and advertising specific real testimonials is fine. A customer described their actual experience that way, and presumably the consumers understand that advertisers will select especially positive individual testimonials for their advertisements. I can't believe I'm actually trying to explain this, but fake testimonials are illegal because the consumer has no way to know that they are made up. Real testimonials are not "lying with statistics", they're not statistics at all, and are legal because consumers can understand that it's not the median customer experience.

If picking real winners and real winnings to feature in the ad was just as good, they could do that. If not, then yes, it makes an impact on the world to mislead people with that marketing.

Somehow there's a difference between things that happened and didn't happen, and that's a good place to draw a line in the sand of what you're allowed to advertise and not.

what an hour ago | parent [-]

> Fabricating, purchasing, or misrepresenting customer experience is deceptive advertising and is a form of fraud.

Doesn’t this make every ad fraud? It’s an actor pretending to enjoy drinking Coca Cola, every ad is the same.

da_grift_shift 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

The actual verbiage is narrower.

First result with a summary of 16 CFR Part 465: Trade Regulation Rule on the Use of Consumer Reviews and Testimonials: https://www.goodwinlaw.com/en/insights/publications/2024/09/...

SJC_Hacker 40 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

How do you know the actor is merely pretending ? Maybe they actually it?

ceejayoz 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Would that be less fraudulent…

Is this even a question? Yes, it would be less fraudulent.

idle_zealot 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I question your definitions. In what sense is it legally or morally useful to discriminate between lying with statistics and lying without them? It's an academically useful distinction, but why does it matter in practice? People are misled, the misleading is intentional, but if you hire a statistician to do it for you instead of an actor then you're A-Okay?

ceejayoz 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

"Someone won" is truthful.

"Celebrity X won" was not.

I am not a fan of gambling, nor gambling advertisements, but this was outright fraud, and a violation of FTC rules (https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/ftcs-endorse...) on disclosure.

SpicyLemonZest 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's useful because honesty and dishonesty are strongly self-correlated. Someone who works hard to ensure their advertising is technically true will likely work hard towards technically satisfying other goals and rules we set for them; someone who's comfortable outright lying in their ads will likely also lie about other things.

ggm 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Would a prosecution have high chance of succeeding?

realJared54 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes, it is 100% a misrepresentation of reality to fool the general public into joining a platform that condones deceptive user acquisition strategies.

jordanb 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I was listening to a podcast and heard an ad for supplements (I think it was collegian). The thing that struck me was the specificity of the health claims they were making in the ad.

There was no "promotes healthy whatever" it was like "this will make your skin younger and eliminate/prevent wrinkles and other signs of aging."

Then the quiet fast-talking guy said that none of their health claims have been reviewed by the FDA.

So that's where we are now. Everything is scams and nobody will do anything about it.

pesus 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I agree with your point in general, but doesn't that disclaimer apply to any kind of supplement? As far as I know that sort of thing has been allowed for quite some time. For whatever reason the FDA allows for an almost completely unregulated vitamin/supplement industry.

jordanb 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They used to be vague and not make specific claims because that wasn't allowed. They'd say "Vitamin K helps promote healthy eyes." They can't say "our chewable will cure your glaucoma. (claimhasnotbeenreviewedbytheFDA)"

But apparently they can do that now, or at least they are doing it.

qlte 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's not up to the FDA, their hands are tied thanks to the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994, sponsored by Senator Orrin Hatch from Utah on behalf of the supplement lobby.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_Supplement_Health_and_...

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/12/31/6738513...

dylan604 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don't see an end to any of it when the Grifter-in-chief is in office.

ok_dad 3 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

recursive 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I mean maybe Trump also caused it but there's no way he's just an innocent bystander here.

ok_dad 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes I already said that he’s bad, don’t roast me, I’m trying to use nuance here like we’re supposed to.