> the main thing that we've done is we've commissioned additional research on this because I've not been happy with the evidence.

Ah, yes, the existing research doesn't agree with our biases, so let's fund new "research" that does.

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embedding-shape 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Full context:

> Ms Kendall told Nick Ferrari: “I told MPs yesterday I'm going to come back to the House with a statement on the issue of VPNs in July. There are very strong views on both sides of this. For some people, it is about privacy, and it is the ability to use that is really held strongly by people. And for others, they say they should be banned because kids are using them to get around. And so I— the main thing that we've done is we've commissioned additional research on this because I've not been happy with the evidence."

Sounds like they realize there are two sides and no "clear winning argument" in either direction, that's why the additional research is needed. Sounds a bit more nuanced than what I expected based on your snippet.

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happyPersonR a few seconds ago | parent | next [-]

> they say they should be banned because kids are using them to get around.

Ummm what??? lolll

if they don't want their kids using vpn... why would banning vpn for everyone and requiring ID verification be the answer? LOLLLL

That sounds like they need to control their kids

"it's hard" ...

"WHY DID YOU HAVE KIDS THEN?!?!?!"

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Retr0id 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What is there to research? Yes, VPNs can be used to circumvent geofences (and by extension, regional age restrictions). Yes, attempting to age-restrict VPNs is at odds with strong privacy guarantees. Privacy is a human right, and one which is essential for effective democracy.

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IanCal 15 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Are there ways of doing age gating while preserving privacy? For whom? How many people need that kind of privacy, would it impact lots of (say) teens seeking help or is this about whistleblowers? Are many under 18s using VPNs for porn? Or have they just shifted to other platforms anyway? If we implemented it “perfectly” would it even do the thing we wanted?

What are the actual numbers here? If there’s lots of fuss about vpns but actually while there’s been a big jump in use it’s not under 18s anyway it wouldn’t help.

> Privacy is a human right, and one which is essential for effective democracy.

And does this get broken enough for age gating something? We age gate alcohol to reasonable success, sometimes that involves showing id.

I’m not arguing for age gating here but I do think understanding the tradeoffs may require more evidence.

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ben_w 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> What is there to research?

The trade-offs and how many people care and about what specifically.

E.g., you say "Privacy is a human right", so why is it that half the websites I visit ask for permission to share details of how I use those sites with more corporate "trusted partners" than there were students and staff combined in my secondary school? I'm all on board with just banning this kind of analytics, but there's a lot of people who are more angry with the EU for forcing companies to at least ask for permission before they sell your data to all those analytics firms.

	▲	nekusar 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> E.g., you say "Privacy is a human right", so why is it that half the websites I visit ask for permission to share details of how I use those sites with more corporate "trusted partners" than there were students and staff combined in my secondary school? Because capitalism itself is the enemy. And information assymmetry is a potent tool, as is constant and persistent surveillance. All of these enable extracting more money.

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gmerc 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Good thing then that Democracy isn’t gonna defend itself.

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baranul 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

But that's the point, circumvent democracy, to set the stage for techno-fascism. The citizen has no rights which the state is bound to respect.

	▲	subscribed 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		By all means. For example the vast majority of the UK residents is against the ongoing support and complicity of the UK in the genocide of Palestinians, to which the government orchestrated the whole operation to turn the protest into act of terrorism (!). Etc.

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ranger_danger 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> What is there to research?

Probably how they can best attach a license to VPN use like they're doing with TV.

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nickdothutton 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"I want to do the thing that gets me the most votes and carries the least political risk". Note this is not necessarily the wisest thing, or even the thing that objectively solves or mitigates the problem the most. Many such cases...

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AlienRobot 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

These people created a law that is catastrophic for privacy, so I don't believe they will be stopped from banning VPN's just because someone claims VPN's are good for privacy.

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Xelbair 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>both sides

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stranded22 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Reminds me of the drugs tsar, Dr Nutt, saying that drugs should be legalised/decriminalised. So he got sacked.

Quite often, people in power don’t want to hear the truth, they want to hear their own words/views parroted back to them.

	▲	subscribed 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		To put it into perspective he was asked to do the harm review, in which he proved how much more harmful the legal drugs (alcohol and nicotine) are from some of the banned ones (namely cannabis, LSD or Psylocibin). Famously at the exact same time UK was claiming there was no evidence of the medicinal use of the cannabis, the UK was also the biggest exporter of it, and all was then turned into Sativex, a cannabis based medicine, not approved for use in the UK of course (individual import is allowed). Interesting is that the husband of one of the very prominent Home Secretary and later Prime Minister is a senior executive in the producet. Of course there's no suggestion of the financial interest of them in keeping a monopoly. See also: https://leftfootforward.org/2021/04/revealed-uk-is-the-world...

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basisword an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nothing new unfortunately [0]. Happy to trust the science as long as it suits them.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Nutt#Dismissal

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varispeed 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Obviously Labour has been "lobbied" and now have to deliver this for whoever wants this.

It's pathetic how they use sobbing families to push it through, similar tactic like before Iraq invasion.

same players behind the scenes.

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bloqs 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This is pretty much it. Bought and paid for, or hand forced by intelligence powers operating beyond ordinary voter politics

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hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Conspiracy theory^

This is happening worldwide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_age_verification_laws_b...

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subscribed 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

What you linked is the evidence of the conspiracy, no need to turn it the other way round.

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iLoveOncall 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The fact that it's coordinated in all "Western" countries show it's a real conspiracy, not just a theory.

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Levitz 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

If your argument is that a group is conspiring to establish policy in a country, the idea that it's happening in many, many countries means the threshold for evidence is now much higher, since the group should be able to have much more control.

	▲	hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 3 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		This is the logical conclusion but there is currently a mass wave of Meta grunts downvoting. Apparently if countries all put an age limit on tobacco it must mean there is a secret group coordinating for it for ulterior reasons.
	▲	iLoveOncall 2 hours ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		8 individuals have as much money, and much more power, than half of the globe's population. The fact that you think there's no such group is simply insane. I mean, the very agenda of their upcoming conference was on the front page of HackerNews a few days ago...
	▲	ImPostingOnHN 3 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		It's as much of a "conspiracy theory" as ordinary monetary corruption worldwide: There doesn't need to be any connection or conspiracy between politicians who take bribes, just like there doesn't need to be any connection or conspiracy between politicians who push for more surveillance and control over others.

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hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Oh yes like Indonesia, Malaysia and Turkey. If it is happening worldwide, it is less likely to be a coordinated scheme and more likely coming to the same conclusions based on current research.

Edit because I'm getting limited:

This isn't exactly something old that has been going on for decades in its current form and the usage has increased especially since the lockdowns. Nations have also been copying each other for centuries, you don't need a secret group coordinating for it with a singular ulterior motive.

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iLoveOncall 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Oh yes sorry, Western countries and dictatorships.

But sure, all governments suddenly woke up at the exact same time, give or take a few months, and realized that social media should be banned for kids.

	▲	exe34 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I think they all wanted to control internet access since the arab spring, but they didn't have a good wedge. Now the data around harm to children is widely available, they all have the same excuse they can use at the same time.

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inigyou 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Or maybe different people respond similarly to the same incentives.

For decades companies like Facebook have been saying you just have to let us groom children, there's no way to have this tech and not groom children. Now the predictable consequences of that are arriving: the tech industry is being turned off, because it grooms children.

And when I say groom children, I'm talking about actual child predators, not the transphobic nonsense point.

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joe_mamba 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Isn't it how it alwasy works?

	▲	halJordan 2 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		[delayed]