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elevation 14 hours ago

While we’re on the topic, on the last year, NPR interviewed an expert who warned of lifelong debilitating injury (pain walking) that dancers developed by going en pointe too young. The woman recommended waiting until 15. But searching for this to share with dancers, I cannot find the interview now. Did NPR retract this?

kjellsbells 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't recall NPR, but I do recall an interview with one of the US Olympic team doctors who has done extensive work on pointe and dance-related injuries.

see: https://selinashah.com/press/interviews/

simplymild 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

While growth plates close at this time (~13-15), in preprofessional training it's more usual to start from about 12. Basically,one's feet need to be strong enough to protect growing bones from permanent damage, thus safely starting pointework has more to do with having enough strength from previous training (2+ years) than fully closed growth plates. For more information: https://www.ortho.wustl.edu/content/Patient-Care/3496/Servic...

ziofill 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yep, that’s what happened to my wife… she started rhythmic gymnastic and ballet at 4 in Eastern Europe in the 90s with a brutal coach, had to stop at 12 for an injury, and she has been having chronic pain and arthritis since she was 17. Anything taken to the extreme can have lifelong consequences.

tomaskafka an hour ago | parent [-]

Reminder that coach is not your friend, the incentives are wrong. If they burn through 100 kids damaging them for life, and one survives to win an Olympic medal, that’s what counts as success.

hombre_fatal 44 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

And on that topic, our cultures default to shoes that press your big toe in, creating bunions in everyone predisposed to bunions. Just because we think it's cute when a shoe is rounded.

You have to specifically look for shoes that don't do it.

(I recommend Whitins on Amazon. $35 shoes.)

SilverElfin 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yep, even dancers who go on point later end up with injuries and issues like arthritis. It’s really that point is a bad idea, period. It’s an archaic holdover. For some reason people don’t view it negatively like foot binding.

wahern 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I can't watch ballet. I actually, not figuratively, cringe when they do en pointe. It's like watching somebody cut themselves or even be in situations where they might, like an amateur youtube cook chopping unsafely; just physically and psychologically too uncomfortable for me. I don't have a problem with blood or injuries, per se; watching a surgical operation is tolerable, as long as I believe it's not actually painful. Maybe if I forced myself to watch enough ballet I'd learn to accept it's not that painful during the performance (is it?), but it'd take more effort than I care to put into it. Something about discrete, focused pain just triggers me. I also have to look away when getting my blood drawn or given a shot, and don't want to watch others getting the needle, either.

Conversely, I think one of the reasons some people are mesmerized by en pointe is the idea of it being painful, in the moment or at least the training/practice, and the manifest dedication involved.

KPGv2 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's interesting that we lunge at ballet so much faster for this danger but everyone is resisting with all their might to criticize soccer, which causes micro-CTEs unless the league bans headers. It's made me wonder if it's some kind of paternalistic misogyny. We must protect the girls, but the boys can fuck off and die. Or, alternatively, let's tear down the girls' arts, but boys sports must be untouched.

dghlsakjg 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Do we?

Never heard of this ballet thing til now. Have heard plenty of rumblings about headers in youth soccer. For both boys and girls.

Male dancers and female athletes exist…

krapp 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think it's more that the male-dominant sports are billion dollar industries driven by deep-seated cultures of masculinity that view safety as weakness, and spectatorship that wants to see violence. No one watches ballet wanting to hear the sound of the dancers' skulls colliding.

wahern 2 hours ago | parent [-]

They do watch for the en pointe, which is beautiful precisely because it's not something we expect bodies to be able to do. And the pain and injury risk also, I think, adds to the effect. I don't think it's all that different from what people experience seeing heads or bodies getting slammed, except en pointe is feminine coded (graceful) whereas slamming is masculine coded (brutish). Similarly, silent, hidden pain (feminine) versus pain as spectacle (masculine).

alexashka 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There is no 'we'. There are different values that value different things.

Slave values = sacrificing yourself is noble and good.

Aristocracy values = being born an aristocrat is noble and good.

Trader values = enriching oneself is noble and good.

Religious fundamentalist values = following the one and only book is good.

Little girl/consumer values = my emotions are good.

Etc.

Slave and religious values are being replaced by trader and little girl/consumer values.

Boys embody slave or trader values. Girls embody little girl/consumer values.

Boys go to war, girls are little princesses. Ballet/women's pro sports are a niche for the few women who embody slave values. Most embody little girl/consumer values.

mhb an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Wait till you hear about an insane game called (US) football!

jrflowers 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

“This smacks of misogyny!” I say as I cross out “sports where players regularly sustain CTE-causing injuries” and write “boys”

https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/article/cte-concussion-wo...

dpark 2 hours ago | parent [-]

“I’m so enlightened I forgot women play soccer” is definitely a weird take.

lstodd 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Okay, now attack boxing.

bobthepanda 2 hours ago | parent [-]

If anything, we’re reversing progress on this front, given we just had a UFC match on the front lawn of the White House.

MAustriaGA 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]