| ▲ | fooker 6 hours ago |
| How long ago was your robotics experience? An Amazon warehouse or Tesla factory tour would likely change your mind. I had to do both of these in the last year and not a lot of humans around… |
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| ▲ | thomasikzelf 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| I have visited factories for work and my experience is the same. There is so much stuff that could easily be automated but is not because it is too expansive for too little value to make a custom one off machine. The big high volume things will be automated but these machines will have 90% success rate and lot's of stuff that needs to be done by hand. You can search for factory tours on youtube to get an idea. Here are two videos, an Amazon warehouse and a Tesla factory. the big heavy stuff is automated but lot's of work is still done by hand.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-R6cBkza17k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45slYC99uUg |
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| ▲ | paulmist 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Do you think humanoids would be a fit on assemblying the assembly line itself? To my limited knowledge a lot of setting up the factory is making sure your line works as expected with X 9s reliability. Here dexterous humanoids are this _universal_ virtual-to-physical interface and, akin to Auto Research, could run assembly line experiments autonomosuly? | |
| ▲ | fooker 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The Amazon video is from four years ago, and the Tesla one from 1.5 years ago. Things have been moving pretty fast in the last year when it comes to semi-bipedal robots doing the long tail of previously unreachable tasks. |
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| ▲ | cpgxiii 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > How long ago was your robotics experience? This is over the last decade at one of the largest automakers in the world. Naturally there is significant variation between individual lines and plants; some are newer and more automated, some are older and much less automated. Are some cars being built on more automated lines? Yes. But a great many, probably the vast majority, are being built with fairly low assembly* automation. * There is a significant split in automation between "body weld" stages and "assembly" stages. Body weld is very heavily automated basically everywhere (although there are some surprising exceptions in places), while assembly is much less automated. |
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| ▲ | fooker 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > probably the vast majority Agreed, and hence I suggested an amazon warehouse tour (they offer one for their flagship robotics 'research' warehouse) to anyone, or a Tesla factory tour (might need to talk to someone, fairly manageable). This reminds me of the quote, "the future is already here – it's just not very evenly distributed." | |
| ▲ | kulahan 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | “One of the largest automakers in the world” makes me think of very low-tech companies like Ford or whatever. I can’t imagine this would bring much actual experience with this new generation of robotics. | | |
| ▲ | cpgxiii 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Ford doesn't even make the top 5 - and however "low-tech" you think these companies are is the point, the overwhelming majority of new cars are being built by those "low-tech" automakers. The problem is not the limits of current technology (or even of the state of the art 10 years ago), it is the lack of vision and will within these companies to invest in using it. > I can’t imagine this would bring much actual experience with this new generation of robotics. Luckily for you, my job has always been within the robotics research side of the company, so I am very much aware of the strengths and weaknesses of the current technology. | |
| ▲ | jamiek88 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What an unnecessary comment dismissing the expertise of an actual expert - what’s your robotic experience to dismiss him so contemptuously? | | |
| ▲ | kulahan 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don't need robotics experience, I need automaker experience. Their software is universally terrible. Ford isn't a tech company, they don't even make their own robots. They buy them from someone else. What... positive experience do you have to assume that one of the lowest-tech industries in existence is somehow giving experience with some of the most advanced tech in the world? | | |
| ▲ | cpgxiii 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > I don't need robotics experience, I need automaker experience. Their software is universally terrible. If you had any auto industry experience, you would know that the people responsible for the design and build of the physical car and the people responsible for the user-facing software are very separate (in fact, the user-facing software might be entirely contracted out). > What... positive experience do you have to assume that one of the lowest-tech industries in existence is somehow giving experience with some of the most advanced tech in the world? You do realize how laughable this position is, commenting on an article about one of the largest automakers in the world buying out the remaining stake in the robotics development company that they already effectively owned. Do you really think that somewhow between owning BD and their partnership with GDM that no-one in the entire corporate structure of Hyundai is aware of the state of the art in robotics? | | |
| ▲ | kulahan an hour ago | parent [-] | | >commenting on an article about one of the largest automakers in the world buying out the remaining stake in the robotics development company enhance: >commenting on an article about one of the largest automakers in the world buying ENHANCE: >buying It does not support your point to show that Hyundai is purchasing the company that actually built the robots. If you want to make your point about how laughable it is that companies don't tend to be in the business of making highly advanced robots, you should probably not prove it with a company that essentially achieved world-largest-status before even finishing their straight-up purchase of this knowledge and tech. |
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| ▲ | FireBeyond 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | This gives me vibes of "... but they're dinosaurs" that pervades Tesla-type discussions. I've watched several extensive discussions here with some Tesla fans breathlessly announce "really cool", "futuristic" "new thinking" functionality or features for their cars that "the dinosaurs just aren't even considering"... except to their initial skepticism, disbelief, actually, the dinosaurs often do have those things (examples including "adaptive blind spot", where triggering of those alerts is highly dependent on speed differentials, so if the vehicle is more rapidly approaching you, the alert fires earlier, dynamic traffic sign recognition - my car doesn't just recognize school zones, but can see when they are active if they have flashing lights, and, based on equipment installation, will actually count down to when my intersection light will turn green, or road mapping radar, where it actually scans the road surface ahead, avoiding potholes when safe, and adjusting ride height dynamically, not just 'press a button or choose a mode to raise or lower'). Indeed, Ford. Leaving aside the "old school" six axis robots that have been around for decades, Ford absolutely uses UR10s collaborating with humans to sand the entire car body in about 30 seconds, and to fit shock absorbers. They're also used at the engine plants. They also use the Symbio platform for transmission assembly, and fully autonomous forklift robots throughout their Tennessee plant. | | |
| ▲ | kulahan 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | My point isn't that they're dinosaurs, it's that they don't really develop robots. Some automakers do, rarely, but they mostly buy them from specialized robotics companies. It's not knowledge-gathering to buy a sander, nor even really to use one. Not on the same way it is to develop that sander. If they were all making their own robots and competing in that way, maybe my response would be different. |
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| ▲ | LudwigNagasena 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I remember around 2018 Tesla was actually criticised for excessive automation because it purportedly was slower and more expensive than manual work. |
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| ▲ | serf 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| automotive workers unions started around 1918 and became major political players in the 30s -- a fact that i'm sure is wholly unrelated to why there are so many un-automated tasks in that industry. |
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| ▲ | bobthepanda 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It’s not really a secret that most new auto factories serving the US tend to open in places where those unions are not active, like the South or Mexico | |
| ▲ | dcrazy 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Hyundai’s manufacturing facilities in the U.S. are not unionized. | |
| ▲ | ckemere 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Amazon warehouses still have a huge number of ununionized workers doing manual labor | | |
| ▲ | kulahan 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Pretty different tasks, environments, outcomes, metrics, goals, and other things in a warehouse vs. a factory… really have no clue how this is supposed to be relevant. Why not mention farms or libraries? | | |
| ▲ | to11mtm 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Well, Farms have the UFW... Libraries are typically either governed by a municipality's rules around employment and treatment of employees, or part of a school/etc where there are again additional guidelines about these things to be sensible and not leading people into unsafe behavior. | | |
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| ▲ | claw-el 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Also, a general purpose robot vs a custom purpose robot represent very different capital investment profile for the factories? |
