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_diyar 3 hours ago

Hard disagree. As a. swiss voter, this is close to my heart.

50% of all energy in the swiss economy is oil / gas. Of the remaining 50% (electricity), 2/3 are generated by hydro. The remaining ~1/3 by nuclear fission.

Swiss electricity prices are sky-high, and the demand for electricity is going to continue to rise.

To remain a competitive industrial economy, to transition away from oil/gas, and to offset any potential losses of hydro power as glaciers melt, nuclear + solar is the only real path for switzerland.

cogman10 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Why hasn't Switzerland deployed solar/wind? That seems like a pretty big miss in general. The Swiss grid has almost no wind which is strange for such a mountainous nation. And solar is also quite low which is also strange given how much empty land exists in Switzerland along with it's relatively low latitude.

Plankaluel 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Regarding wind and mountains. Some perspective from someone from neighboring Tyrol:

The reason there is so little wind power: Probably the same reason the western, alpine parts of Austria have basically zero wind power - and why neighbouring Carinthia recently voted in a referendum to ban it completely.

People who live in the Alps generally don't like seeing the mountains altered. It is treated almost as sacrilege. And since these areas are heavily dependent on tourism, where the appeal rests on a romantic, Disney-fied fantasy of wild, untamed nature, locals worry that turbines would make the region less attractive to tourists. Of course, this "untouched" landscape is largely a fiction in the first place: most of it looks the way it does precisely because people have lived in it and shaped it for centuries.

s1artibartfast 7 minutes ago | parent [-]

yeah, some it has been shaped by man, but that does not negate or invalidate the fact that they like it the way that it is.

My clean dinner table is completely artificial, but that doesnt mean I should be neutral to someone placing a bowl of shit on it.

Arodex 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

See this long-form investigation:

https://www.heidi.news/explorations/black-out-le-talon-d-ach...

stymaar 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

See this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48587327

julkali 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

nimby

cogman10 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Yeah, that seems like it'd be something that would also stop nuclear deployment.

shermantanktop 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foehn_wind

Given how my grandmother said every ailment under the sun was due to the Föhn, putting a windmill up would probably be seen as tempting the fates. /s

I'm joking wrt to wind energy, but the cultural associations with wind are real.

pjc50 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Where's the solar currently? Is it also victim to NIMBYs? Or shading?

I can understand people objecting to plastering the south facing unshaded Alps with panels, but .. it would certainly generate a lot.

pmontra an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As you are Swiss, where would you get the uranium from? I expect that the Swiss Alps have some mine, especially in the south west (I didn't check) but is that enough? You might end up swapping a dependency from foreign providers of oil and gas with a dependency from foreign providers of uranium.

empiricus 15 minutes ago | parent [-]

to my knowledge, the cost of uranium is almost negligible compared to the capital cost of building the plant. so as long as a market exists, you can choose whatever strategy: buy a big buffer, or just don't care if price oscillates x times.

orwin 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Like I said in another comment: nuclear only makes sense if you build it at scale, because you need very specific skills and knowledge that is hard to get to build it securely, on time and cheap. Ideally you would have one company/conglomerate that would get one plant off the ground per year across the EU, but currently that isn't possible.

includenotfound 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I don't doubt the Swiss could do it right technically speaking, as they do everything else, but I guess the economic argument still holds.

Arodex 2 hours ago | parent [-]

>I don't doubt the Swiss could do it right technically speaking, as they do everything else

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucens_reactor

AtlasBarfed 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

...You guys have mountains everywhere, which means dirt cheap hydro energy storage for solar and wind?

I'm a lftr enthusiast, but everyone needs to keep in mind that fission is just fundamentally economically non-competitive compared to solar and wind.

And all those stories about fusion being right around the corner? Yeah, that won't be economically competitive either.

I personally am not in favor of closing down existing fission nuclear plants. By the construction of new fission plants is an economic boondoggle: big, long time, cost overruns, more expensive.

I had hopes for smrs to fundamentally change the economic game but they aren't. I just don't think that solid fuel rod nuclear can ever be economically competitive.

I think I'm back to my original lifter enthusiasm, where lifter is able to use 90% plus of the core nuclear fuel and breed more of it from ultra cheap thorium, and is safer and can be scaled by design....

I think nuclear industry should spend another 10 to 20 years engineering developing a fundamentally economically competitive nuclear plant that will also give time for the price improvement, curves of solar wind and storage to stabilize.

Because solar wind and storage still have a lot of runway for improvement between sodium ion batteries perovskites and just general improvements to wind rotors and general economies of scale

tribaal 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Mostly all of our potential for pumped hydro is already developed, and there is not a lot left to do for non-pumped hydro.

We can't grow hydro at the required scale, and the usual problem with solar and wind (that we should develop nonetheless, don't get me wrong) apply: we can't produce enough power with those all year (winter nights need power too for heat pumps etc...)

cogman10 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Wind would be particularly effective in Switzerland and it's fast to deploy. The swiss grid has less than 1% wind which was pretty shocking to me. It seems like Switzerland has a particularly bad renewable story for an EU nation.

tribaal 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Wind is not that developed in Switzerland because it's not actually that great of a situation... We have a lot of steep mountains which make building wind farms a real challenge, and the flat plains in between have "meh" levels of wind. And a very strong NIMBY mentality. We do have some projects but those are more exception than rule.

The really awesome wind spots are more the coastal or offshore farms, which... well... we can't have (no access to the sea does that to you).

Solar is really really booming right now however, many houses take themselves off grid completely. Mine is a net producer for example.

calvinmorrison 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's not in the EU. It is part of the Schengen Agreement.

jsnell 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's not an EU nation.

cogman10 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Oh wow, I didn't realize that! That's crazy, basically everyone that borders them are EU members. I was also under the impression (but haven't checked) that it was pretty easy to cross the swiss border both into and out of the EU.

Arodex 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Switzerland unilaterally got out of negotiations with the EU, which also dealt with energy grid coordination.

As such, as of now, the EU can shut down Switzerland without warning if the grid is overloaded and they need to avoid a blackout.

estebank 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area