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Arainach 4 days ago

No. You're not required to use the app. You're not even entitled to use the app. If you want to use the app, you have to play by their rules. Plenty of device manufacturers have chosen to only offer iOS apps. No one talked about mandating that apps were available on competing platforms.

If you choose to use something like GrapheneOS, you are signing up for the fact that almost no one will test on your platform and plenty of things will be broken.

microtonal 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

The app worked until a few weeks ago. GrapheneOS does not miss any functionality (nor security) for the app to work. The only change is that they started blocking non-GMS Android through the thoroughly anti-competitive Play Integrity.

Hypothetically, if GrapheneOS wanted to become a certified Android, it would probably not be blocked on technical reasons, only that becoming certified (last time a contract was leaked) requires running privileged Google Play Services (which is less secure) and pre-installing a bunch of Google apps that should not be uninstallable.

How is that not anti-competitive?

watermelon0 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The issue here is not that they didn't test on alternative distributions of Android, the issue is that they went out of their way to prevent anything but the officially blessed distributions.

Arainach 4 days ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

moooo99 4 days ago | parent [-]

Except for the fact that the car is sold as is with the features advertised (i.e. working with an Android app with no additional qualifiers as to which kind of android) AND that users are paying for these connective services

Arainach 4 days ago | parent [-]

Graphene is not a kind of Android. It doesn't even advertise itself as such:

> GrapheneOS is a privacy and security focused mobile OS with Android app compatibility [https://grapheneos.org/]

HybridStatAnim8 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

GrapheneOS is based on the Android Open Source Project and retains near perfect android app compatibility. It cannot call itself android for legal reasons, but the legal definition does not affect its app compatibility.

Tools such as play integrity are illegal. Using anticompetitive and monopolistic tools is not the right of application developers.

Arainach 4 days ago | parent [-]

The legal definition matters a lot if someone is trying to argue that VW advertising Android features is supposed to include GrapheneOS

> Using anticompetitive and monopolistic tools is not the right of application developers.

Please talk to an actual lawyer before making legal claims, because to be blunt it's very clear you don't know what many of those terms mean in a legal context. VW is not a "monopoly". They have no obligation to allow the use of their software on platforms they don't want.

HybridStatAnim8 4 days ago | parent [-]

The legal definition of the OS does not matter at all when considering the difference between failing to support something, and using a tool that explicitly stops something from working that otherwise works without issue. Play integrity is a tool which does not base any of its certification decisions in privacy or security, rather leverages it for anticompetitive reasons. This is known and trivially verifiable.

I do know what these terms mean in a legal context. I am claiming that play integrity is an anticompetitive and monopolistic tool, of which VW decided to use. I am not claiming VW is a monopoly. What you are claiming is their right to do, is not their right at all, and is illegal.

Arainach 4 days ago | parent [-]

You've made a lot of leaps. IF something were declared to be anticompetitive, it would be in the context of the provider of the service. There is no law or moral issue with Volkswagen using it.

You may disagree with the concept of Device Integrity, but it is a feature with plenty of history and demand. Companies want their services accessed from secure platforms for security, and this is not inherently anticompetitive.

Zak 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

GrapheneOS is obviously an Android distribution, but I suspect trademarks mean they have to be careful about how they describe it.

HybridStatAnim8 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The basis of your argument, that users want these developers to support another platform, does not make sense, because GrapheneOS does not require apps add explicit support for it. GrapheneOS has 99% android app compatibility.

The issue is not that this application isnt tested on GOS, its that an anticompetitive, illegal tool is being used to ban non-certified OSs when these apps would work perfectly otherwise.

midasz 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Here it is, the true hacker mentality.

DANmode 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Understanding how those around you operate makes you no less of a hacker.

It can even make you a great/better one…

_factor 4 days ago | parent [-]

They don’t just understand, they basically promote it.

DANmode 4 days ago | parent [-]

It felt more resigned than promotional to me; but yes, normalization is a fine line!

esikich 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Sir, this is a VC bro website.

_imnothere 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is one of the most ignorant comment I ever read on Hacker News. Are you from VW?

Obviously VW broke the app for GrapheneOS (or any other custom ROM) on purpose, and ironically, things usually works fine for custom ROMs than some Chinese OEM customized ROMs, and when it works, it means the developer went extra miles to implement workaround to cater the flawed OS.[1]

[1]: ref: Years of Android community experience

dj0k3r 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The difference here is that the devs specifically chose to stop allowing the app to work on the OS without any known compatibility issue? The app just works fine on Android should they let it run.

tedajax 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Increasingly these kinds of apps are a requirement for a lot of features so ...

warkdarrior 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sure the app is not required, though one loses on all of the remote-control functionality (remote start, remote climate control, etc.).

Maybe then app developers should be mandated to open fully their server-side protocols, so people can create apps for platforms that are not supported by default. No more undocumented APIs, anybody can get an API key, no API serving limits!

microtonal 4 days ago | parent [-]

Unfortunately, Volkswagen has an API, but made it much harder to use it since a few weeks ago:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48319509

queeshonda 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

"tEsT yOuR PlatTfORM"

Fuck that.