> Some are even offering API rates at 3x lower than the official ZAI api rates

Looking at openrouter [1], some of the cheaper offerings are for quantized models. Not sure how much intelligence is lost in quantization. And they are not 3 times cheaper. Where did you find 3x lower prices for APIs? I am considering skipping open router and using them directly for that price.

edit:

I see, croft [2] 8bit for $0.50/$0.08/$2.20

[1]: https://openrouter.ai/z-ai/glm-5.2

[2]: https://ai.nahcrof.com/pricing

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scrlk 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

IME, unquantised -> FP8 is pretty much lossless. What matters more is having an unquantized KV cache - using an FP8 KV cache can result in a significant drop in quality.

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johnnyApplePRNG 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

>unquantised -> FP8 is pretty much lossless

Claude Shannon is rolling in his grave.

	▲	gpm 29 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		I don't know, sounds quite similar to his rate distortion theorem (analyzing minimum number of bits/symbol you need to stay under some fixed amount of distortion). I.e. lossy compression with a maximum amount of loss. I.e. "pretty much lossless" compression. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rate%E2%80%93distortion_theory (

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ComputerGuru 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Do infra providers reveal that level of implementation detail?

	▲	scrlk 5 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I've seen a few articles from providers talking about KV cache quantisation, but it's not something they explicitly point out like they do with weights. So you could end up paying more for unquantised weights, only to get silently hit with a quantised KV cache...

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benjiro29 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Neuralwatt ... When you reverse calculate the actual energy usage / price on a token basis, the gap is large.

I do not have GLM 5.2 numbers because the whole default max setting is overkill. But GLM 5.1 numbers had it at 12x cheaper then API rates. And about 2.5x more tokens vs zai their own subscription service.

Yes, its FP8 but lets be honest, do we know for sure that even zai runs at FP16? I learned a long time ago with Claude and Codex how much cheating happens on model levels, even from the big boys.

	▲	spelk 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Please correct me if you have contradicting data but: Neuralwatt's price per token vs price for energy comparison doesn't seem to take into account the cost savings from cache hits that other providers offer on pure token rates. The comparison seems to assume every input token is a cache miss. On top of that, the cloud offering doesn't seem that well-run, they randomly blocked a colleague's API key for a couple days without any heads up, had a weird rate limiting bug and they have been deprecating models without redirects with very short notice, all while taking weeks to onboard new models. I assume some of these problems would be addressed if we had an SLA/enterprise contract. It's a promising idea though. They offer a $5 trial credit (with an aggressive rate limit) though so no harm in trying it out.