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xg15 8 hours ago

Can anyone explain that "anti-science" crusade to me? This doesn't seem to have any effect than reduce America's standing in the world.

adithyareddy 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They're ideological goals, not technical ones. If they don't make sense to you it's because you're not viewing it through their ideological lens.

7 hours ago | parent [-]
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justin66 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They're isolationists. They do not care about America's standing in the world.

wnevets 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> reduce America's standing in the world.

That is the goal.

7 hours ago | parent | next [-]
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jackyinger 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

A small price to pay to increase the standing of a select few. /s

st-keller 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you want to be an authoritarian ruler, truth is the first thing you have to eliminate! If noone knows what is true, a leader can tell you what to believe! Science is our method to determine truth! A führer cannot have that!

gpm 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

More than that if you're a professor (and thus an educator for the next generation) you're now incentivized to modify your speech in favour of the authoritarian in order to keep getting funding.

I wouldn't underestimate the degree to which funding to these is being cut because climate scientists have historically been politically opposed to certain large republican donors that make their fortunes burning fossil fuels.

Hikikomori 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It was also the first things Hitler and Mussolini did once they got power.

epistasis 7 hours ago | parent [-]

And Mao and Lenin! Stalin's efforts at this are unparalleled, honestly, and we even allied with that asshole against Hitler and Mussolini.

All totalitarians eliminate any other source of truth, power, or influence except themselves.

munificent 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The primary goal of authoritarianism is consolidation of power among a small number of elites. Anything that can reduce that power is an enemy.

The essential weakness that the powerful elites have is that they are, by definition, outnumbered. So in order to consolidate and maintain power, they need to disturb any system that the masses can use to coordinate and form collective action.

(It's a kid's movie, but Hopper's speech in "A Bug's Life" captures this very well: https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/1hfo90u/hoppers_jus...)

Reality has a strong consensus-creating effect. We all live in the same material world, so simply by understanding it better and sharing that understanding, we will automatically trend towards having more common ground and more agreement.

That's a threat to elite power, so authoritarian governments have always been anti-science. They may pay it lip service, or attempt to harness it to their own ends, but they never want an entire populace that it well-educated and grounded in reality, because well-informed masses are harder to divide and conquer.

peyton 8 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

munificent 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

What supporting evidence would be compelling to you?

usernomdeguerre 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What supporting evidence would convince you concretely?

AngryData 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I would point to the consistent consolidation of power upward in our government, from Congress to the President, away from States to Congress, away from local governments to State. Our population grows and yet congress is capped, our problems and cases grow and yet the Supreme Court isn't being increased and instead picks and chooses cases that support the federal government.

I find it hard to believe anyone is willingly ceding power upward except towards the goal of a stronger more authoritarian rule by the elite classes because they don't think lesser people are worthy of making decisions. They don't care about stepping on others as long as they think they will get to do the stepping.

CamperBob2 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you ignored the Project 2025 manifesto, it's safe to say you'll ignore anything written here as well.

Like most great conspiracies, Project 2025 was not confined to a smoke-filled room in the basement of a guarded mansion. It was published and distributed freely for anyone and everyone to read. Now's a good time to catch up: https://www.project2025.observer/en

Hikikomori 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That they're fascist? And project 2025 is essentially a blueprint of what Hitler did by purging the bureaucracy of anyone that might oppose him. The new OMB guidelines extends it to anyone getting grants to do science.

Its clear that Vought, Miller and even Vance are fans of Carl Schmitt as they're implementing his ideas, Vance has even mentioned him publicly.

kevin_thibedeau 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's all outlined in Gulliver's Travels.

epistasis 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Pretty much every single part of Project 2025 is designed to reduce America's standing in the world, not just the anti-science parts of it.

It's a general trend across all authoritarian regimes; it's harder to be authoritarian with lots of international connections, with lots of strength and partnerships.

Autarky, authoritarianism, isolation, all go together (along with weak economies, etc., but the goal isn't to have the biggest amount of pie, the goal is to be able to control all the pie slices and take the biggest portion, even if the pie is far smaller.)

jaybrendansmith 3 hours ago | parent [-]

When do we get to the part where we all collectively wake up and realize they are the enemy of the American People? You know, the part with the guillotines?

throwpoaster 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The steel man is that you can’t peer review your way to breakthroughs that change consensus, because peer review relies on consensus, so peer review has to be made subordinate to accountable decision makers.

toomuchtodo 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If we do not have objective facts and data, the truth is whatever the loudest person says it is.

fhdkweig 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Studying the ocean temperatures verifies that climate change is not a hoax. "He" is making money off fossil fuels. That is enough of a reason for being anti-science. This is the same guy that decided that the COVID numbers would go down if we just stopped measuring them. Burying his head in the sand is his go-to solution for all problems.

Isamu 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think this is part of an anti-climate change agenda, which is about protecting fossil fuel investments. Not sure that it is broadly anti-science, except maybe in the sense of being against public funding broadly.

quantified 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you believe that our leadership is being influenced by actors such as Vladimir Putin, then you see that this is intended.

CamperBob2 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Once you start asking what Trump would do differently if he actually were an agent or captive of hostile foreign interests, the rest will begin to make more sense.

naturalmovement 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There's a lot of collateral damage that could have been avoided if millions weren't being squandered on dubious "science" like studying grooming habits of trans aboriginals in the Central African Republic (a made-up scenario, but there are many like it).

At some point the baby's going to be thrown out with the bath water until the course is corrected.

evan_ 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Aren't you in any way concerned that you can't give a real example of the sort of thing you're talking about, and have to make one up? This should be the wake-up call that makes you re-evaluate your priors.

The reality is that reactionaries often describe "useless" scientific endeavors like "condoms for worms" that end up being the only thing stopping parasitic screwworms from infesting the US cattle herd, which will end up costing us hundreds of millions of dollars to resolve- and spike the already-high cost of beef for decades.

bsdetector 5 hours ago | parent [-]

You can look at the list of canceled NSF grants yourself, and HN readers should.

https://grant-witness.us/nsf-data.html

    #1 Center for Integrated Quantum Materials
    #2 a STEM Graduate Education Model for American Indians and Native Alaskans
    #3 Identity Development Evaluation of African American Science Students 
    #4 The Greater Alabama Black Belt Region (GABBR) LSAMP
    #5 A Model to Advance Historically Underrepresented Minorities
    #6 The Hispanic AGEP Alliance for the Environmental Science
    #7 "" [different recipient]
    #8 Puerto Rico Center for Environmental Neuroscience (Cycle II)
    #9 Advancing Inclusive Leaders in Astronomy
    #10 Intersectional Directions to Engender Success
This list starts off with at most 2 of 10 that's real science and not racial, ethnic, or gender discrimination previously funded by the government (spoiler, the ratio gets lower with more samples).

Previous commenter may have not given real examples so you would be free to argue his point rather than specifics. In any case, here's at least 1500 examples for you.

Itoldmyselfso 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There's nobody gatekeeping what can be studied and what can't. You claim millions are being wasted; by who? Is the goverment funding the studies you deem as wasted? If so you'd think that rather than making up a study you'd be able to give a single example. Should be very easy if millions are being wasted on these what I'd assume you'd call "bogus" studies.

enragedcacti 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Seriously, when our tax dollars pay for idiots to play around with lizard spit[1] all day, why should we trust anything they want to fund?

[1] https://biomedical-sciences.uq.edu.au/article/2024/04/rise-o...

pesus 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

What's next, paying them to study worms??

https://www.wgal.com/article/new-world-screwworm-pennsylvani...

triceratops 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Should've added an /s there

pesus 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Instead of getting upset about made up scenarios, why don't you find some real scenarios? Like the one this thread is discussing, for instance.

preg_match 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A lot of this “dubious science” isn’t dubious at all. Rather, people just have a political view on it. Like climate change is considered dubious science by the right. It’s not, but that’s how they view it.

Sabinus 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

To me this argument sounds like, " the Dems funded too much trans science so you made us defund climate and social science and damage the rest"

Is that about right?

epistasis 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> a made-up scenario, but there are many like it)

There are many made-up scenarios, but not many real examples of what you are using to justify the weakening of the entire nation.

And the fact that you had to fabricate something is literally proof of it. Now, go find any supposed "waste" and you'll find that, again, the science has been completely misrepresented to the public by an anti-science media source that was focused on creating fake propaganda rather than properly informing the public.

Seriously. Prove me wrong, go find all this bath water that you claim exists, post it here!

peyton 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Exactly, it’s a failure to gatekeep and self-police. You can’t tell truths about rocks and lies about people.

epistasis 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Give me an example of this supposed phenomenon, because I haven't seen it. And anytime I've heard somebody claim with an actual example, it's been easy to disprove their assertions.

7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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