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PaulKeeble 6 hours ago

I feel like we have moved into the era now where if you were putting cabling in the walls for networking you should be choosing fibre now. Not necessarily because we are definitely at the stage where the home needs it, but because the off ramp is clearly happening for ethernet at 10gbit/s and its really high consumption and heat. Switching to fibre after 2.5gbit/s seems like the thing to do now and plenty of us now have access to internet speeds that can exceed 2.5gbit/s.

Keyframe 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I did just that relatively recently in a house we bought. OS2 single mode duplex throughout the house, all converging to a trunk which is available in three locations for equipment. It's basically future proof, but also has its own well, things. You can't really plug into a duplex (I wish though), you have to put a small switch to it with SFP+ or 28 or whatever the speed you want. Higher speed switches are also a tad expensive. And then, there's the big one - PoE. That's why I also ran CAT6A next to each duplex to rooms and they're more or less for APs in the house. Overall it's definitely future proof and fantastic, but also a bit expensive if you wanna engage that fiber through the house. Pulling the cable itself isn't much of a cost at all and I recommend it.

CobaltFire 19 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Finishing up the same thing. 2x OS2 pairs with 2x CAT-6A to each drop, all coming together to the network closet.

Gives me fiber for bandwidth and copper for PoE. Figured it was smarter to do both than compromise to either one, and surprisingly the fiber was cheaper than the copper to pull.

brianwawok 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I did this and used little $129 Zyxel SFP+ to 2.5G copper switches to get to my access points. Has been running smooth!

drnick1 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What for? Ethernet is what you ultimately need, because that is what devices such as PCs and WiFi access points use. I experimented with SFP for a while, but ultimately concluded that it isn't worth the effort to add SFP cards to PCs now that that low-power 10G Ethernet chips like the RTL8127 are available. High-end motherboards already have 10G Ethernet and soon lower-end models will too. 2.5G is practically standard already.

parl_match 15 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> What for? Ethernet is what you ultimately need

Is answered in the comment you responded to:

> because the off ramp is clearly happening for ethernet at 10gbit/s

As for

> because that is what devices such as PCs and WiFi access points use

We are looking to the future. If you're putting stuff in the walls, then you should try to target something that will be adequate both today, and in 10 years from now.

Increasingly, prosumer stuff is including an SFP port. High end PCs will be shipping it in the near future, as well. And, while low-power chips are coming out, the simple fact is that physics are getting in the way.

I do think that the average home won't need more than 2.5gbps, pretty much indefinitely (an 8k video at "bluray quality" is about at most 5% of that bandwidth). But if you have any desire of going past 10gbps, Ethernet is not going to cut it.

And yes, before you ask, there is a 25gbase-t standard. Maximum distance: 30m (100ft). 100ft from panel to panel in a house? Oof.

thefz 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ever ran a single mode bidi fibre in a conduit? Push a wire puller, cleave and terminate ends, done. Zero effort unlike pulling a jacketed CAT7 cable, zero worries from electrical interference too, future proofing up to 40GBps. I ran double strands in my house so in case one breaks, there's another.

The floors where native fibre is not needed have a cheap ethernet media converter from fs.com, everything else (3 floor switches) are interconnected with 10Gbps SFP+ modules and 2.5G ethernet for the hosts.

All done thanks to the great https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2020-08-09-fiber-link-ho...

(if you are reading this, I owe you several beers)

drnick1 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The issue with this setup is that you need an extra switch with an SFP+ uplink or media converter in each room or place where Ethernet will be used. And then you still need Ethernet cables anyway for the end devices. I can't justify this complexity for 40Gbps when I can now get 10Gbps inexpensively and conveniently.

throw0101c 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If your walls are ripped open, then sure run some OS2 everywhere, but Cat 6A gets you 10GbE at 100m, but even 'only' Cat 5e or (plain) 6 gets you that speed up to 55m (per 802.3an):

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_Gigabit_Ethernet#10GBASE-T

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_over_twisted_pair#Var...

Why the need for faffing about with media convertors, at least with-in your domicile? (Fibre outside / to the garage certainly makes sense.)

esseph 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

My APs are fiber now.

readingnews 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Totally agree, I went to fiber years ago, and the decrease in latency makes it _feel_ so much faster than 10G copper, it is not funny. Besides, if you put in the "good stuff" them moving to 40G and beyond is not a problem later on. Like others said, just add a copper line for POE devices, but for systems... its fiber all the way.

cbdumas 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There are probably still a lot of cases where you would want PoE though right? Cameras, WAPs, etc.

brianwawok 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Waps are next to power, some even have SFP+ ports

tombert 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have ten gigabits throughout most of my house, and you're right: copper is not happy pushing ten gigs.

My 10 gigabit thunderbolt dongle weighs about a pound, and I think 90+% of that weight is just heatsink. If I've had it plugged in for awhile, if I accidentally touch that dongle it actually hurts because it's so hot. I cannot image that much heat is good for, well, anything.

I have another Thunderbolt dongle that has an SFP+ module, so I ran a fiber line from my switch to my computer, and that runs considerably cooler. That's what I use nowadays.

myrandomcomment 3 hours ago | parent [-]

What standard of cable? When I rewired I ran Cat6a everywhere. My longest 10G run is ~70 meters and works just fine. Anytime I had a link issue it was because I did not do the best job in termination on the keystone jack.

To be clear the Cat6a is thicker than Cat6 and harder to work with. It makes termination a bit more tricky.

tombert 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I use Cat 8.

The cables themselves don't get too hot, but the dongles themselves seem to get really hot. I'm assuming that's a known issue given the size of the heatsinks on them.

throw0101c 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I feel like we have moved into the era now where if you were putting cabling in the walls for networking you should be choosing fibre now.

How many consumer devices have an ((Q)SFP(+)) optical cage?

If you're in their pulling stuff anyway, sure, do some OS2, but for most people, for most devices, Cat 5e/6 is more useful, especially since you can do POE(+(+)) over it as well. 5e/6 gets you 10GbE to 55m, and 6A to 100m.

protocolture 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Personally, if I was building a house, anywhere I want significant non wifi hardware would have a switch anyway.

collabs 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I would be grateful and happy to have gigabit Ethernet with cat 6A in every room instead of this single landline phone jack and/or coaxial cable. The most important thing is a good conduit in place when the house is built.

Hasz 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

you should be putting in conduit -- either smurf tube, emt, sch40, or similar. can pull whatever, and more importantly, if a cable is damaged by an overly zealous gorilla during installation, it can easily be fixed and replaced.

5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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tiffanyh 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> ethernet at 10gbit/s and its really high consumption and heat

Do you mean Ethernet cables get hot? Or just the networking equipment pushing that data.

I ask because I’ve never heard of Ethernet cables getting hot.

gerdesj 3 hours ago | parent [-]

PoE++ can get warm but you wont be doing that with fibre!

Before specifying fibre everywhere I suggest you note that a CAT 6 cable can manage 10G and PoE++. Its a lot more resilient to breakage too, especially outside the data centre.

If you really want to blow some cash there is CAT6A, which is probably not indicated unless you want cable lengths of more than say 50m.

whalesalad 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You cannot do PoE over fiber.

CamperBob2 27 minutes ago | parent [-]

Hold my laser and watch this (with remaining eye)

zer00eyz 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> the off ramp is clearly happening for ethernet

You should be running both.

If you are being smart about it your planning distributed switching (fiber to media boxes with power).

From a pure networking stance, fiber is the way to go. But POE continues to have more and more uses (doorbells, cameras, sensors, lighting controls).

esseph 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You still need to power things.

Often that will mean running both Cat6A and fiber.