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zeroonetwothree 4 hours ago

Perhaps you realize this, but the way the economy grows 2.5% is through lots of entities growing faster than that.

Growth comes from innovation, and innovators get rewarded with faster growth as non-innovators decline.

smallmancontrov 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

No mention of Piketty or r>g?

Look, I know this is a tech forum and we don't claim to be good at the social sciences, but this is a central debate and r>g, the idea that the rate of return to capital tends to exceed economic growth over the course of history, is a major result from Piketty's Capital In The 21st Century that people interested in "grow the pie" vs "trickle down" really ought to be familiar with. Even if you disagree, you ought to be able to articulate why, and "the average includes winners and losers" ain't it.

"But life has improved, r>g couldn't have been true forever" -- last time the inequality bubble popped because of a great depression and two world wars. The capital was incinerated, metaphorically and literally. It's a cautionary tale and we should aspire to do better.

dnautics 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> It's a cautionary tale and we should aspire to do better.

Why is it a cautionary tale? Sounds like we should have a bunch of incinerations of capital, ideally let the capital mobilizers that are actually competent survive.

tikhonj 2 hours ago | parent [-]

"Let's have more world wars" isn't a great thing to aim for.

dnautics an hour ago | parent [-]

I'm suggesting deflationary contractions, but okay. Note that deflationary contractions in 1930 sucked because we didn't have solid supply chains, modern agriculture, liquid asset markets turbocharged with rapid information interchange etc. Might be worth trying in the 20X0s

ElProlactin 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Growth comes from innovation...

I suppose it depends on how broadly you define "innovation".

Lots of companies grow because of, among other things: regulatory capture, regulatory arbitrage, questionable use of other people's IP, offshoring, misclassification of employees/contractors, profit shifting and transfer pricing, subsidized predatory below-cost pricing, dark patterns, aggressive collection and monetization of user data, acqui-hires to stifle competition, implementing high-switching costs to create vendor lock-in, round-tripping, channel-stuffing, business models that intentionally externalize costs, outright fraud.

inigyou 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If so many entities are declining, why shouldn't I expect that my entities will also decline? Why should I expect them to be the ones that go up?

analog31 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I would say it slightly differently: The average rate of growth comes from the average of the successful and unsuccessful innovators and non-innovators.

UncleMeat 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Bill Gates' wealth grew much more after he left Microsoft than while he was CEO. Was that wealth earned through innovation? No. He simply owned something that became more valuable as other people labored to innovate.

CityOfThrowaway an hour ago | parent | next [-]

So what? He owned the stock, he gets to share in the gains.

If we believed that the only people who should be morally allowed to benefit from asset appreciation are the people who actively work for that company, the entire economy would collapse.

For example, every pension fund, endowment, retirement fund, etc. are all invested in financial assets that they had NO role in. All they do is own something that become more valuable as other people labor and innovate! Shall we cast them as evil capitalists?

ElProlactin 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

popalchemist 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Growth does not ONLY come from innovation. It can come from bad actor or even simply non-innovaive strategies such as acquistition (which can lead to monopoly, as capital tends to amass in large centers / the hands of the few, per Marx). Other bad faith / anti-competitive / non-innovative strategies include regulatory capture, lobbying, doing illegal things (and hoping to not get caught / paying a slap-on-the-wrist fine that would be impossible for smaller companies), etc.