I get what you’re saying but in the last 20 years can you think of any mass protest that accomplished anything substantial? I don’t really blame people for giving up on it as a tool for change. TBH only truly effective one I can think of would be Jan 6

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Topfi 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I can, just not in the US [0]. I always presumed this is linked to the health care being provided by employers rather than having a more robust safety net that allows for civil disobedience without having to fear existential risks. However, I also can’t forget that the French have their safety net not as a God given right, but because they fought for it via (often not just civil) protest. Reference also the statements MLK JR made concerning the willingness of white moderates to engage in actually effective disobedience, even when their financial situation allows for such.

[0] https://thenonviolenceproject.wisc.edu/2023/06/02/recent-pro...

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peyton 2 hours ago | parent [-]

There are more people not on employer-provided health insurance in the US than exist in France. How does your presumption work given that fact?

	▲	Topfi an hour ago \| parent [-]
		I just checked and it's 54% in the US [0] vs 0% in France (cause basic public healthcare isn't tied to employment). So, unless you are referring to absolute numbers (not very helpful when comparing countries of different sizes), I'm not sure what you are referring to. I will admit that my purely personal thesis on this front goes a bit beyond healthcare. I feel that a robust safety net, iron clad right to protest and a large, at least reasonably financially stable (meaning no existential financial fears for at least the majority of citizenry, i.e. above roughly 60% middle class for a given economy) are needed to allow for protests in such a manner that the citizenry are both capable, willing and informed sufficiently to protect their own interests and democracy as a whole. Having the right and ability to protests is needed, just as much as being comfortable enough to have the time to actually stay politically engaged (consistent financial strain being a reasonable cause for why one doesn't stay informed in my book). France or my home country of Austria (imperfect countries like any other, I will (un)happily admit) on that front are in the 65%-75% range, whereas the US appears to barely get above 50% purely by income along with higher health care costs in general and employer linked plans for as stated above the majority, so these are somewhat interlinked in my view. Same reason, albeit less extreme, why in war-torn countries, long standing brutal dictatorships and the like, the citizenry rarely is able to create any proper action agains their oppressors, not because they are accepting of the status quo, weak, or anything of the sort, but because when one is starving and trying to help their family unit survive, even beyond the risk that action can pose, their often isn't any time to actually consider it. "A republic, if you can keep it", in my opinion is a high demand from the public. They need to have the tools, rights and resources to actively defend it. Not saying France is perfect here, but I will say that it is easy to just raise our finger at the US populous without considering the whole picture. [0] https://www.reuters.com/world/us/portion-insured-americans-w...

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graphime 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> I get what you’re saying but in the last 20 years can you think of any mass protest that accomplished anything substantial?

Nope.

Even the Jan 6 one didn’t really change our quality of life. And damn, that was a protest, by American standards.

	▲	vrganj 2 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		It was a protest as much as the Beer Hall Putsch was.
	▲	boston_clone 2 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		January Sixth was not a protest, it was an attempt to interfere with government processes to prevent Biden from being elected - so a really shitty attempt at a coup.