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| ▲ | vitally3643 an hour ago | parent | next [-] |
| That's one theory, yes. Cooking food (with fire) makes more calories available, meaning less hunting required to support more individuals, and/or freeing up more time and calories for thinking. This allowed us to evolve bigger and more complex brains. While it's not a given that fire is a hard prerequisite for an industrial civilization, it certainly accelerated our technological development. Fact of the matter is, we know of exactly one civilization, which is not enough to draw any conclusions. There's no real reason we know of that aquatic species cannot evolve into a technological civilization, we just haven't seen it happen. Fact is we don't really know how an intelligent technological species evolves. We only have guesses from our own history. |
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| ▲ | aurareturn 37 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Fire, agriculture, electricity, AI. Rank these inventions in terms of importance to humanity. | | |
| ▲ | aozame 7 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | AI is not important at all. Just make things more convenient, but is completely unnecessary. | |
| ▲ | anonymousiam 13 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It looks like you've already done so with the order of the sequence that you used. | |
| ▲ | vkou 6 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Nuclear weapons and fossil fuels and the C-corporation will probably turn out to be more important to the long-term future of humanity and it's civilization. |
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| ▲ | smilespray an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | And a sample size of one. | | |
| ▲ | vitally3643 an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | That's what I said, yes. | |
| ▲ | nobodyandproud an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | We have counter examples of human pods that never really achieved “civilization”. What’s missing that make them more akin to orcas or wolves? |
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| ▲ | Calavar an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Brains are resource hungry, especially oxygen hungry. Earth's air is orders of magnitude richer in oxygen molecules than its water. This likely made it easier for intelligence to develop on land. It's worth noting that the smartest aquatic animals are air breathing mammals that spent much of their evolutionary history on land before returning to water. |
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| ▲ | onlypassingthru an hour ago | parent [-] | | When did octopuses start breathing air? | | |
| ▲ | Calavar an hour ago | parent [-] | | Octopuses are smart, but I've yet to see anything that suggests they are smarter than dolphins or whales. | | |
| ▲ | onlypassingthru 12 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I've heard that the biggest limiting factor in octopus ocean domination is their short lifespans. Tool use, building structures, communication, facial recognition, multiple brains, it's all there. https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/octopuses-keep-surprising-us-... | |
| ▲ | mapt an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Both whales and prairie dogs turn out to have rather advanced degrees of verbal language capability, more complex than any of the Great Apes bar homo sapiens. Crows somehow culturally remember the face of an antagonist multiple generations later. Almost every highly social vertebrate has degrees of intelligence that would get you burned as a witch if you'd suggested it not too long ago, in the era when "Fishes clearly don't feel pain" was just a cultural default assumption. |
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| ▲ | ekelsen an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Interesting to think what could be if cephalopods raised their young instead of leaving them to completely fend for themselves. It would start intergenerational knowledge transfer, i.e. culture. Maybe selection pressure then trends towards group cooperation instead of going it solo. I still think there would be huge barriers to "civilization" as I think you mean? (Do any of the apes have "civilization"?). |
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| ▲ | fhdkweig 9 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | The real problem with cephalopods is their lifespan. For their age, they are almost as smart as humans, the problem is that they don't live past the age of 5 years. | |
| ▲ | sarkhan an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Orcas do this already. I mean there might be a already a civilization that is in the building that will peak 100k years later, and we just don't know about it. | | |
| ▲ | ekelsen 29 minutes ago | parent [-] | | having arms is probably an advantage in developing tool-use, but who knows! |
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| ▲ | zahlman an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Physically manipulating objects is a lot harder underwater, even if you somehow evolve fine motor control despite not having any real use for it. So that severely limits what an intelligent aquatic species could actually do with that intelligence. Aside from fire you're missing the wheel, a writing system and many other things. |
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| ▲ | card_zero an hour ago | parent [-] | | Being immersed in solvent can't help with things like graphic arts and pottery. |
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| ▲ | layer8 20 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| One hypothesis is that the brain began too look (and eventually plan) farther ahead with land animals, because you have a much farther view in air than in water. On land there is more evolutionary pressure to change one’s behavior regarding animals farther away that you see and that can see you, to predict their behavior and plan one’s own behavior within a larger time horizon. |
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| ▲ | TheBigSalad an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You're talking about a thing that happened for 1 species for such a small period of Earth's history to be just a blip. There's not enough data to draw a conclusion here. |
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| ▲ | nobodyandproud an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Humans are one of a handful species equipped to change their immediate environment to suit their needs, across virtually every environment, and introduce stability. Beyond that… Being able to have down time seems like a prerequisite to creating. civilization. Also, having both the intelligence and desire to seem and recognize ways to improve—even if not strictly necessary—via tools to free up even more time also seems to be a requirement. And having a system to reliably and in-scale transmit this knowledge is the final ingredient. So some baseline stability, down-time,
intelligence, reliable knowledge transmission, tool-use for the above, and active willingness to improve all of the above all seem like necessary ingredients. |