> M series macs are weird

More weird than the opaque Management Engines on Intel or AMD chips that can take full control of your system at any time that you have no control over?

> Can't help but to think the goal of this wasn't to actually allow third-party OSes

Apple has explicitly stated that allowing third party OSes is exactly the purpose of the new bootloader.

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Rohansi 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't know about Intel ME but AMD PSP is basically the equivalent of Apple's Secure Enclave, so there's that.

	▲	GeekyBear 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		You should probably do do some reading on the subject to gain a bit more understanding: > This puts [Apple Silicon Macs] somewhere between x86 PCs and a libre-first system like the Talos II in terms of freedom to replace firmware and boot components; while a number of blobs are required in order to boot the system, none of those have the ability to take over the OS or compromise it post-boot (unlike, say, Intel ME and AMD PSP on recent systems, or the DMA-capable chips on the LPC bus running opaque blobs that exist on even old ThinkPads). https://asahilinux.org/docs/platform/introduction/ The Secure Enclave is equivalent to a PC's TPM (a TPM is now required to run Windows) not any form of a management engine.

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amiga386 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, more weird than that. x86 PCs have fairly standardised boot and autoconfiguration (UEFI and ACPI). ARM based systems, including the Apple M series, don't. You just have to know what's there (device trees), and Apple isn't going to tell you. Hence why it's difficult to make another OS run on it, because you first need to find out what hardware's even there, and how to talk to it. It's initialised by Apple before iBoot runs, sure, but you don't even know what it is, so good luck writing a driver for it.

The Intel ME / AMD PSP are creepy, and probably a security risk to the device owner, but they're not weird, you can run an OS without even knowing they're there, and they like it that way.

	▲	GeekyBear 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Asahi Linux already does use an open source UEFI implementation (U-Boot) to boot Linux. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_U-Boot The Asahi installer will also allow you to install UEFI alone, in case you want to use UEFI to install some other OS. The hardware management engines in modern x86 chips are backdoors running at a higher privilege level than the installed OS's kernel. It's hard to see them as anything else.

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well_ackshually 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>More weird than the opaque Management Engines on Intel or AMD chips that can take full control of your system at any time that you have no control over?

Considering they're pretty much fully undocumented (officially, that is) and could contain any number of IME equivalents since we know that they already have independent processors like the secure enclave running its own OS: yeah, probably more weird. Just because Asahi did not find one doesn't mean it doesn't exist.