> you don’t blame a gun for killing, but the person who pulled the trigger

This is famously the slogan of the pro-gun lobby (funded by gun manufacturers and merchants), who want the society to be awash with guns because they're profiting from it but don't want to be blamed for the consequences.

The counterpoint is that when we get rid of most of the guns we also end up substantially eliminating the killings.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_don't_kill_people%2C_peop...

▲

matwood 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

IMO both things are true. The person pulled the trigger, and less guns mean fewer gun deaths.

▲

2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[deleted]

▲

fc417fc802 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> This is famously the slogan of the pro-gun lobby

It's also the view of anyone who hasn't been driven mad by propaganda. Regardless of your political views a tool is a tool at the end of the day. Attempting to anthropomorphize a category of objects in order to shift blame all for the sake of furthering an agenda is plainly bad faith behavior.

I'm not a fan of bike lanes with zero separation from automobiles but that doesn't mean it's appropriate or even remotely plausible to blame cars for killing cyclists. Inattentive drivers and poor road design are what kill them.

As tempted as I am to cast about for a third highly divisive subject to bait people with, perhaps we could avoid blatantly dragging the conversation towards off topic tired political talking points?

▲

12 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

[deleted]

▲

coldtea 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A phrase like "who hasn't been driven mad by propaganda" doesn't exactly sound like impationately discussing the issue either.

	▲	fc417fc802 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Calling a zealot a zealot does not mean that one is incapable of discussing the underlying topic. We must not let the desire to converse intelligently hamstring our ability to call out obviously corrupt patterns of thought for what they are. Anyway my above reply was hardly the appropriate venue to engage in a genuine manner on that topic. The parent was blatantly derailing things by inserting his pet political issue. That sort of behavior undermines the community and so (IMO) should not be indulged.

▲

antonvs an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Blindly repeating superficial slogans seems like a good candidate for “driven mad by propaganda.” At the very least, it’s what people do when they are amplifying a position for ideological reasons, not contributing in good faith.

▲

taneq 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

People without guns kill a lot fewer people than people with guns. Claiming that acknowledging this fact means you’ve been “driven mad by propaganda” is dumb.

▲

db48x 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

This is not true; there are quite a few people with guns who have never killed anyone, and quite a few people without guns who found a way to kill someone anyway. Poison, knives, hammers, rocks, windows, their bare hands. You name it someone has killed someone with it.

▲

rmunn 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Let's just stop this conversation right here before it derails into ideological battle.

	▲	fc417fc802 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		No I think we should definitely find a creative way to drag at least abortion and freedom of speech into this "conversation". Fight fire with fire so to speak.