> the security of all our computers depends on maintainers

Not getting paid anything, getting bullied and harassed while spending their free time maintaining things. Surely this isn't sustainable. And telling maintainers how to act will not fix anything.

▲ fc417fc802 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> telling maintainers how to act will not fix anything.

That depends. In this case it's good actionable advice that should hopefully lower cognitive load. Politely suggest a fork, then if the nagging persists block and move on. Sure if you're in a position of authority you have a responsibility to the community but cutting ties with a stranger who is flagrantly violating social norms is perfectly acceptable. There's no expectation that you indefinitely burden yourself with their poor behavior.

Sometimes dropping the ban hammer really is in the best interests of both yourself and the project.

▲

matsemann 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I don't really think it's actionable. It's like all those campaigns trying to steer behavior, pretty useless. Don't do drugs. Don't speed. Don't drink and drive. You can't just tell people something and expect it to happen. You need systems and guard rails in place.

Relying on maintainers to always do the right thing to ensure our security by telling them what to do is not the way.

	▲	fc417fc802 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		It's not an attempt to steer behavior but rather intended as helpful advice. There are certainly cases of organizations disseminating "helpful advice" with the underhanded intent of steering behavior but that doesn't mean we should assume bad faith by default. The advice is actionable because it is a concrete change that could be made. I believe it to be relevant to the context because someone in a position of authority who is badgered into accepting something would most likely benefit from reevaluating how he is interacting with the general public.

▲ josephg 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> telling maintainers how to act will not fix anything.

I'm just saying its ok to ignore overly enthusiastic contributors and tell them to just fork your project.

I think this does help, actually. In my early days of maintaining opensource software I felt burdened by open PRs - like I was letting someone down by ignoring their work. "Its ok, let them do whatever in their own fork" is advice I wish someone had given me.

	▲	dotancohen 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		`> I'm just saying its ok to ignore overly enthusiastic contributors and tell them to just fork your project.` I propose the phrasing "fork off".

▲ stackghost 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>And telling maintainers how to act will not fix anything.

Indeed. For too long, maintainers were expected to be gracious, courteous, and polite at all costs lest they be labeled "problematic", except for a few who were too influential to be muzzled like Theo de Raadt or Linus.

Perhaps we need to normalize bullying people who submit obvious slop as PRs.

	▲	fc417fc802 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		No, you absolutely should be gracious, courteous, and polite. But only at first. The duty of maintaining a functional community doesn't mean you're obligated to suffer unlimited abuse.