> develop and iterate leading electric vehicles so fast.

How do you know this for a fact? Chinese press releases? You've driven one? Some auto blogger drove one?

After world war 2 Gorbachev or whoever visited the United States and during that trio visited a supermarket. He thought it was a facade, possibly, put on just for him, there's no way Americans are this prosperous (or whatever, this good at agriculture, farm equipment, etc)

Also do the race cars have 4 wheel drive, or all-wheel drive? I'm wagering all-wheel with "torque vectoring" and "Yaw control", like a Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X.

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Grombobulous 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I am somewhat confused at the intensity of pushback for the statement “leading electric vehicles.”

Chinese EVs are leading and that doesn’t necessarily mean being the best, most advanced vehicles. They are leading in value/pricing, and in many regions they are leading in sales.

BYD sells almost double the EV volume of Tesla globally as of December 2025. They are objectively leading in that respect.

I think the parent comment of yours made a good point (or at least adjacent to a good point) about China’s ability to enter the market: they can’t compete with 100 years of internal combustion engine development along with the vast parts supplier network of the West, but they can compete on battery chemistry, battery supply, motors, and the more vertically integrated EV space where automakers don’t need to depend on a huge network of parts suppliers like they did in the past.

I also think that a lot of pushback to the innovation that China is delivering is criticism that is stuck in the past. If you buy a Xiaomi car, it integrates perfectly with all your Xiaomi consumer devices. You can control your rice cooker or robot vacuum from your car’s integrated infotainment system. This type of approach was exactly what Apple was going to deliver before they abandoned their automotive project.

Or, you can buy a Mercedes and you’ll get a car with more precise handling and perfectly tuned driving characteristics. The infotainment system looks like Windows Vista.

Which side of the aisle do you think most consumers care about? I think most people buy into Xiaomi’s approach.

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vctrnk 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Semiofftopic but somehow I took offense at the Vista comparison. Aero Glass was peak UI design to me, and I'd certainly prefer it to modern paradigms like flat controls, or to stretch it even further, Corporate Memphis etc.

Curse you, Apple and Jony Ive. You only needed to tone skeuomorphism down not kill it.

	▲	Grombobulous 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I’m genuinely delighted that this reaction to that little phrase came up! It was definitely something of a half-joke on my part: the Mercedes infotainment system is very well-regarded, but it does not look “modern” compared to something like a Tesla, Rivian, or Xiaomi. The hyperscreen from a physical hardware perspective looks strangely dated to me as well, depending on the specific car model.

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genewitch 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

you consider the question asked to be "intense"?

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kakacik 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wouldnt be so harsh even with chinese combustion engines, its at this point a meme that is just copy pasted because everybody says so, but without actual experience. People dont understand how China is 3x bigger than Europe and 4x bigger than US, the scale of that market is absurd and competition numerous and fierce.

I've had MG suv rented recently with just gasoline engine and it was fine. This comes from long term bmw driver, they are not on the exactly same level, but light years ahead from similarly prices ie french vehicles. Handling was fine too, probably the biggest shock for me, this is where french, italian etc are losing me (bmw effect). And they cost 1/3 of bmw.

	▲	Grombobulous 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		True, and on a similar wavelength, nobody seems to care that Kia/Hyundai engines are super mid. Heck, nobody seems to care that Toyota engines/transmissions sound like a vacuum cleaner and have pretty mediocre NVH on models like the Corolla, but they buy those products for reliability and efficiency.

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csomar 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I think with xiaomi yu7 and Tesla killing the model S, the chinese are leading in everything when it comes to EVs.

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throwaway20222 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Listening to the heads of the American and European car companies say the same and driving in them in china. I know that is different than personally disassembling one and reviewing it, but I am not sure the incentive for the other companies to say they have inferior products, unless it was a play for subsidies or deregulation of some form.

Personally I feel that the rest of the world continues to dramatically under estimate China’s progress and technological advancement at our own peril. Is there fluff and are their lots of untrue claims, of course, but that is certainly not something they have a monopoly on.

	▲	crote 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		It's because the West still views Chinese people as dumb laborers: just a bunch of cheap bodies who can do nothing more than screwing together our brilliant inventions. China creates something of equal quality as a Western company? It must've been IP theft! China competes on price? It must be state subsidies! China creates something innovative? Don't use it - it'll send your data back to the CCP! Or just pretend it doesn't exist. In reality Chinese people aren't idiots. We've spent a couple of decades giving away all of our manufacturing knowledge for a few cents of shareholder value, so it is not exactly surprising that they now possess that knowledge - and are able to build upon it. China is dealing with huge demographic changes, so obviously they've been pushing for automation, so it shouldn't be a surprise that those factories are now rapidly automating. Which we could've done in the West, but outsourcing it to cheap Chinese labor was cheaper in the short term. For every genius in the West there are ten geniuses in China, and with their top-down economic policy they are able to apply it where it truly matters. We created our own worst enemy, and are now crying foul. If we don't get rid of our outdated racist biases soon and start treating China like the successful superpower that it is, we're going to get completely steamrolled in the next few decades.

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BigTTYGothGF 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Aren't you getting your analogy backwards? American supermarkets have the same role in the story as Chinese cars.