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curiouscavalier 7 hours ago

having developed multiple apps on it and tried every which way to use it (as an XR enthusiast in general), I have never been so happy to put a headset up on the shelf and never pull it out again.

using as a spatial monitor was cool. for about 10min until my neck got tired of the added weight. but I’ll give credit that those 10min were pretty cool.

nkrisc 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Unless materials science advances to the point where a display like the Vision Pro weighs as much as a pair of glasses, I don’t think there’ll ever be mass adoption of wearable VR beyond anything more than a novelty, for exactly the reason you stated.

Wearing something heavy on the front of your face is simply not a pleasant experience.

pmontra 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The weight is important but it's only a part of what's wrong with those kind of devices. Wearing something that hides their face is something that people do at Carnival or because they must. It's antisocial. It creates a barrier. It isolates from other people. There is no chance it will become something people will do together with other people not wearing the same device.

nkrisc 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Agreed, that’s the other big reason I didn’t mention: most people don’t want a screen on their face. They don’t want their face covered, they want to see out the window or just what’s around them.

I have never seen someone wear a VR headset in public that wasn’t part of a mall VR novelty attraction.

Geee 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Beyond 2 is 107 grams. The new M5 Vision Pro is 750 grams. It's easily doable, but Apple deliberately makes them heavy for some reason.

layer8 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

107 grams is still pretty heavy. Regular glasses are 35 grams or less. My sunglasses are below 20 grams.

nkrisc 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

107 grams is still too heavy. That’s four times as heavy as my glasses.

sleepybrett 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

the steam frame is apparently 440 grams.

numpad0 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Vive Flow is 189 grams btw

asadotzler 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Beyond 2 has almost none of the sensor suite, no eye tracking, no meaningful compute, no pass-through video, no inside-out tracking, no gesture control, and requires two to three entirely separate units set up around the room to do any outside in tracking, yet it still weighs 4-5x what glasses weigh.

Just the displays and lenses will outweigh glasses considerably and there's nothing to strip back when you're down to display and lenses. Throw in a chassis and head strap and you're pretty far from glasses in weight and ergonomics.

cineticdaffodil 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In industrial robotics, there is this emergency practice when the payload and tooling on the robot gets to heavy, to connect the payload to a counterweight and pully system, to "neutralize it in weight". Has anyone here tried that ? It should take three thin ropes with weight to make a object neutrally buyont. Yes, its tied to one room, yes its not pretty and futuristic, but its practical? If you want freedom of movement, connect via magnet- and dedock on leaving the room?

thih9 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Here is a video:

https://old.reddit.com/r/VisionPro/comments/1cki7jc/brillian...

masfuerte 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

More simply, I wonder if anyone's tried adding an equal weight to the back of their head. This would double the weight, but people can carry very heavy loads on their heads as long as the weight is acting downwards.

t-writescode 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yes. This is how various headsets are made. The HTC focus Vision is one example, and there’s an addon (not sure if third party) for the quest 3 that puts a battery back there.

So yes, this is done and it can help.

hgoel 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This has been done as a mod for the Valve Index, it works pretty well. Really is mainly a balance issue.

esikich 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The issue with that is you would constantly need to keep your head on the same plane, as soon as you move it around, it becomes unbalanced and now it's even harder to move around because it's heavier. Walking with something balanced on your head is a completely different use case than looking around, up and down etc.

MisterTea 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Counterweights are common in a lot of industrial machinery. Most CNC mills have them on the Z axis to neutralize the spindle weight. And they're not always a weight on a rope or chain, they can be gas or hydraulic cylinders with valves enabling dynamic loading.

wvenable 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Since it's tethered anyway for the battery, I think Apple made a mistake just not building it as a (smart) monitor tethered to a separate PC.

Imagine if the vision pro could just be plugged into a small compute module with a battery or just plugged directly into a Macbook. It would be lighter, cheaper, and more flexible. I think a lot more people would have been interested in it.

Cassell 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yes, make the battery 2x bigger and include the compute in that.

It would be so cool to be able to plug in arbitrary input devices too, like a dvd player, but its understandable that others don’t feel this way, and it would totally not be an apple product if it did this.

One of their main imposed constraints was clearly to make the battery pocketable, which sadly precludes a lot of things which would have made it a better product, in favour of wider acceptability.

al_borland 14 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Considering the short battery life, I’d prefer they ditch the battery and just tether the headset completely. Maybe have a small internal battery just to facilitate a 5 minute change of input.

grokx 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Yes, make the battery 2x bigger and include the compute in that.

You can't move the compute away in a headset. I have worked for an XR OEM, and when you are designing a headset, you want the compute to be as close as possible from the cameras and displays, to achieve the lowest possible latency and avoid motion sickness for the users.

Even moving the compute to the back of the headset was not considered viable by our HW team. And we haven't spoken about the bandwidth required for all those cameras and UHD displays.

A better way to reduce the weight of the AVP would have been to remove the (useless IMO) front holographic screen, and to replace most of the glass and metal by plastic. And maybe move the battery pack to the back, to get a more balanced headset.

wvenable 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> You can't move the compute away in a headset.

Meta has shown pretty convincingly that you can literally stream VR apps/games over Wifi from a PC to a headset and have a great experience. You will need some compute on the device, as close as possible, but the bulk of the computing could be moved off.

Jabrov 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Have you ever tried that? For me, the lag was the tiniest bit perceptible and was enough to make me sick

Cassell 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This is how most consumer vr used to be before the (oculus) quest, and it worked fine. The data path was massive with base stations etc. A lot of people did get motion sick, but its probably more to do with framerate, one would have thought

wvenable 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Played Half-Life Alyx this way entirely on a Quest 2, and I have gotten sick in VR, but I had no problem with it.

The technology has actually gotten better since I last spent a significant amount of time with it.

t-writescode 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The Big Screen Beyond and WiFi-enabled video streaming like for the Quest 3 and upcoming Steam Frame disagree with you.

dsernst 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I agree w/ most of what you said about reducing latency.

Just wanted to let you know the new Dual Knit bands are weighted in the back, and improve the balance a bunch.

asadotzler 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

A tethered virtual monitor wouldn't be a PC, it'd be a PC peripheral. Cook wanted a PC platform and app store he could call his own, so we got this 1.5 pound strap-on facial PC instead of a really nice virtual display.

Also, it doesn't make the best virtual monitor anyway, as the display fidelity is about half-Retina, so all the pixels really stick out compared to every other display Apple's shipped in recent memory. A 1998 Powerbook has crisper text.

orimirs 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Is there a headset you like use for prolonged periods?

t-writescode 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I regularly wear a Quest 3 for 4-7 hours at a time. Before that, I used a Focus Vision for the same.

I have a battery pack I put in my pocket for the Quest 3 and I’m generally very happy with it.

fouc an hour ago | parent [-]

is that 4-7 hours with the Quest 3 mostly for working or entertainment?

ChoGGi 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don't have any issue going a couple hours with my HP reverb g2, it is wired though, and I imagine quite a bit lighter.

system2 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If you are not going to pick it up from the shelf, why wouldn't you sell it before it loses even more value as tech evolves?

dehugger 7 hours ago | parent [-]

most gen1 apple products are a small retirement investment if you keep it in working condition for long enough

al_borland 10 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

This is gambling on a 50 year timeline.

system2 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You mean 40-50 years? It would make more money if you invested in a tech stock. Apple itself has gone up 3,000x since its ipo. $1K would be $3M today.