| ▲ | WoodenChair 6 hours ago |
| Apple very rarely admits mistakes. The fact they're rolling back some of the extremeness in Liquid Glass and actively mentioned in the keynote that they very seriously took the user feedback shows just how bad it was, at least initially. |
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| ▲ | philistine 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| It was literally the first specific announcement they made after they finished their introductions. Not anything iPhone related; they announced that Liquid Glass on macOS would move towards the older design. Goes to show that a year of anybody with any sort of clout complaining about the thousand little cuts of Liquid Glass on macOS will get a company to respond. That and the guy who announced it last year fled to Facebook of all places. |
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| ▲ | xoa 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | >shows just how bad it was >Goes to show that a year of anybody with any sort of clout complaining about the thousand little cuts of Liquid Glass on macOS will get a company to respond. Worth remembering too that this isn't merely about "complaints", Apple has significant metrics on the rates at which users are upgrading to a new OS, or not. You can opt-out of sharing that data, but a lot of people (even technical people) may choose to check the box to share with Apple. Anecdotally, I myself and a LOT of other people have stuck with macOS 15 or earlier, but Apple should have a lot of hard data on it and adoption curves vs the past. A real reaction does certainly suggest that this wasn't just a tempest in a teacup, but that they really weren't seeing the adoption on Macs they expected. | | |
| ▲ | lynndotpy 28 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Yes!! I agree with this entirely. As far as I know, the best data the rest of us have is Google Trends. And based on that, it really does look like Liquid Glass elicited the largest negative reaction that Apple has ever had to an OS release. "How to Switch to Android" hit 3x its all time peak, "iPhone revert update", hit 4x its all-time peak, "iPhone slow" hit 8x its all time peak, "iPhone bad now" hit 5x its all time peak, "iPhone fix battery" hit 3x its all-time peak (and 14x its five-year peak) https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=how%20to... https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=iphone%2... https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=i... https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=iphone%2... https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=iphone%2... I mostly looked at this for iOS, but searches like "macOS slow", "mac slow", "fix mac battery", "fix mac", etc. all show similar hockey-stick jumps as Liquid Glass rolled out. If this means a sudden highest-ever 10x shift in customer dissatisfaction - 1000% - then that has to have been significant. | |
| ▲ | yurishimo 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I and most of my dev friends didn’t update. The reality is that many of us work in a web browser and an IDE all day writing software for non-Apple platforms. The only incentive I have to update is new and compelling OS features or bugfixes. Since major security patches will likely be backported, that just leaves new features and the reality is that macOS’ only new “feature” worth talking about was Liquid Glass considering their AI offering was also an absolute joke. Given the other emphasis placed on performance improvements (likely in service to helping to mask the slowness of LLM Siri) I’m really hoping this is a modern Snow Leopard release. I’m looking forward to the Apple nerds digging and offering a compelling narrative about why I should care about updating. And to add on to that, if this is a bug-fix bonanza release, hopefully we’ll also see a lot of positive movement during the beta period to keep shipping fixes. We’re getting a freaking EQ on AirPods!!!!111!!1! It seems Apple is finally taking some things to heart about listening to their users and I’m 10000% here for it. | |
| ▲ | dijit 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | not just that, people keeping to older OS’s will actively avoid converting to new hardware sales.. I did not upgrade my laptop because it would come with the latest OS- I am not alone. | | |
| ▲ | 05 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | The other side of it is forced obsolescence where new OS makes your existing hardware slower. So I wouldn't upgrade my phone beyond iOS18.x purely for performance reasons but if there's a killer feature in a new iPhone I would still consider buying it because its hardware was built to handle the new effects and extra ram it needs. |
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| ▲ | 05 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Opt out all you want do you really think Apple doesn't know what OS version hits their APIs? |
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| ▲ | torben-friis 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's still nice to see a company not double down on a fall! They seem to have been on a full year of tech debt and optimisation. I still would have liked a more genuine walk back (they sold it as "iterations and adjustments" as if the rewinded stuff were new ideas) but overall reassuring. | | |
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| ▲ | robot_jesus 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yeah. It's clear they've been hearing the complaints. Not just Liquid Glass, but they even talked about the inconsistent menu bar icons and problems with rounded corner radii (among a bunch of improvements). I'm excited that this is basically Snow Leopard part II, for those who remember. |
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| ▲ | xnx 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Apple very rarely admits mistakes. Probably the best reversion was getting rid of the butterfly keyboard and bringing back ports after Jony Ive was gone. |
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| ▲ | simonebrunozzi 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | He went on to ruin Ferrari now :) | | |
| ▲ | edbaskerville 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Whoa, didn't realize that was Jony Ive! Good job Jony! Gave both Ferrari and EVs bad press with a single product launch! A good lesson in not messing with a good thing. If they had just put an electric motor in a classic Ferrari body, it could have been a nice moment for the energy transition. | | |
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| ▲ | unshavedyak an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Man did I despise that keyboard. I went from hating that to adoring my M3. Which feels good because I loved my MacBook before those butterfly switches, and again I love my MacBook now. I almost left apple entirely over those stupid switches lol. | |
| ▲ | xiaoyu2006 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I hope they redesign their magic mouse. It's not a real product. | | |
| ▲ | kqp 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I think it’s basically recalcitrance. Same as they suddenly turn into the world’s worst devs every time they have to make software for Windows. Apple hates mouses, but many people won’t consider not using one, so they reluctantly make an expensive, pretty, and absolutely terrible mouse to get you over the hump of the macOS switch then keep pushing you along to where they really want you: the giant touchpad, where they do have a moat, and which trains you for the rest of their ecosystem. They even sneak half of that touchpad into the mouse itself, and half of the mouse out, so the transition is oh so easy. | | |
| ▲ | yurishimo 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I have been a desktop trackpad user for so long now, I literally don’t want to use a mouse for anything except playing video games. The amount of flexibility offered by a good trackpad just wins most of the time as it is plenty accurate for quickly jumping around on one axis. With a large enough trackpad, you could even move to a 1:1 type of movement, or add that functionality to a layer for the best of both worlds (like gyro enhanced aiming in games). |
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| ▲ | acdha an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is off-topic and it’s especially a waste of attention because it’s a social media meme, not a real problem. People who actually use them don’t spend time talking about it because it means every few months you plug it in long enough for a coffee break, and in return you can use it for many years without the connector breaking. | | |
| ▲ | wtallis an hour ago | parent [-] | | Even if you set aside the stupid charging situation, it's still a bad mouse. The multitouch capabilities are not well used by the software, and it's the only mouse I've ever used that routinely sends scroll events while I'm just trying to click or drag. Their laptops are pretty good at rejecting accidental touchpad inputs despite those touchpads being quite large, but the mouse is a constant source of unintentional inputs. |
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| ▲ | yurishimo 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Do you use a Magic Mouse? It’s really not that bad if your only computer use consists of social media and the occasional budgeting spreadsheet. And before you mention it, yes the charging cable. In reality, plugging it in for literally 1 minute will get you enough battery to last hours. 5 minutes will get you an entire day. Normal people plug it in and go get a coffee or pee and then it’s fine until they log off for the day. Could it better? Of course, but it’s not so large an issue that they are losing customers on it, so it is what it is. You’re not the target market for an Apple mouse and that’s okay. | | |
| ▲ | ashdksnndck 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | You’ve convinced me. I hope on the next iPhone, they make it so you have to put the MagSafe puck on the front where the screen is instead of that back where it is now. |
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| ▲ | numpad0 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | obligatory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMX2cQdPubk&t=737s | | |
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| ▲ | tomduncalf 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yeah I’m surprised by what a design misstep it was. The shiny corners of icons on iOS look so tacky and on macOS the corner radius mismatch is crazy. Also not a fan of the “bulbous” shapes of things with excessive rounded corners. Whenever I use my personal Mac or iPad, still on the old OS, I wonder what they were thinking - I would guess it was rushed to hit the annual release, as it does have potential in parts. That said, it looks from the few screenshots in this like you’re able to pare it back to something much closer to how it used to look, which is great and I’m glad they’re taking feedback on board. |
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| ▲ | andrewl-hn an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Apple very rarely admits mistakes Excep every time they do a big redesign like this. This happened when they moved away from skeuomorphism in iOS7(?) and then backpedalled hard in the following revision because of negative user feedback. Similar thing happened when they presented the reinvented Safari (I do't think that one even survived through betas). And it is happening now. |
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| ▲ | GeekyBear 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Apple has always tweaked new UI designs over the first few OS releases. They did it with Aqua when MacOS launched and again with the iPhone's original skeuomorphic UI and yet again with the flat redesign of iOS. |
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| ▲ | marbletiles 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | What they don’t do is open their keynotes with announcements of the tweaks. This isn’t like the other situations. | |
| ▲ | try-working 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Of course. Every company does that. There is no company ever that just freezes after they release something. | | |
| ▲ | tsunamifury 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | He means the classic revolution/evolution cycle. Move forward, and then refine. This means you have to accept some errors in the name of momentum. |
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| ▲ | analogpixel 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Maybe I wasn't in the minority of people that stopped updating macos to wait for them to remove it. |
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| ▲ | robomartin an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I would love to be able to have a conversation with the people who decided Liquid Glass was a good idea. The first question would be: Given all other truly useful things you could implement as well as bug fixes, why did you think that investing time and money on Liquid Glass would deliver useful value to users? I wonder how much time and money they wasted on something that nobody wanted, cared for, needed or solved any real problem? |
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| ▲ | sethops1 34 minutes ago | parent [-] | | My theory is they made Liquid Glass for the Watch first, where (IMHO) it's actually pretty great, and assumed it would translate well to iOS and macOS, which in retrospect it did not. |
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| ▲ | matesz 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I bet they planned this before the initial release and actually had this capability then and there. Just needed some guinea pigs (aka their users) to learn more and establish the trend. |
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| ▲ | kefabean 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | well, they also needed the initial release to facilitate a 'speed bump' in the new release, so perhaps! |
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| ▲ | dmitrygr 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| At least, unlike microslop, they ARE fixing things based on user feedback. |
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| ▲ | thewebguyd 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | So is Microsoft, albeit a bit late to the party. Taskbar now movable, performance improvements hitting insider builds, MS BUILD half about WSL containers, native coreutils, a dev edition of windows using Winget config to strip all the bloat out, all new system dialogs replacing a good chunk of the old Win32 stuff, WinUI reactor, ability to remove AI models & Copilot from the OS, etc. Classic case of the reality distortion field here. | | |
| ▲ | dmitrygr 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Oh? So I can now disable "AI" and "onedrive" and "microsoft accounts" in windows? COOL! where do i enable that? | | |
| ▲ | thewebguyd 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | You always could disable OneDrive (it's uninstallable), and you could always use a local account on Pro editions of Windows, that's nothing new. Uninstalling Copilot and the local AI models is whats new on current insider builds. | | |
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| ▲ | Melatonic 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Wait - what is the dev edition of windows? | | |
| ▲ | thewebguyd 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Edition is probably a bit generous (although that's the verbiage they used at the BUILD conference), but its a set of winget configs (works like Ansible) to disable a bunch of stuff, install WSL, starship, coreutils, node, python, whatever other SDKs you want, etc. with one command. https://github.com/microsoft/WindowsDeveloperConfig I believe they used the word edition because they plan on offering W365 cloud VMs with this config pre applied. |
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| ▲ | firemelt 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| so bad like john ive ferarri lmao |
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| ▲ | dry_soup 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| [dead] |
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| ▲ | moogly 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Jobs: "You're holding it wrong, idiot." Also Jobs: fires the antenna designer |
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| ▲ | Y-bar 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Multiple things can be true: We could be holding it wrong, and Jobs be correct to point out that many rival phones at the time literally had manuals dictating how to hold their phones to avoid reception issues. The antenna designer could have done a better job, preventing the situation, thereby not dragging Jobs into a PR storm. Jobs could have handled the situation and communication _significantly_ better. |
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