Remix.run Logo
lelanthran 6 hours ago

> Whatever your feelings on the future of the industry are, it's hard to imagine you'll find more professional success in artisan woodworking than artisan software.

A small percentage of the market, maybe a fraction of a percent, are still willing to pay for hand-built goods - bonus if it's thoroughly modern but retro (steam-punk keyboards, maybe).

Exactly zero percent of the market is willing to pay for hand-built software.

witx 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Exactly zero percent of the market is willing to pay for hand-built software.

You took this statistic out of your rear end?

onion2k 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It is fairly obvious that the majority of people who buy software (>99%) don't really care how it's built. They care a lot about the outcome of using it, they care a little bit about whether there are bugs or not, and they care about the cost a lot, but beyond that nothing seems to matter to the purchaser. Even obvious things like whether or not there are tests, documentation, SLAs for fixes, or backwards compatibility between versions don't really seem to matter much.

That doesn't mean you couldn't carve out a niche providing hand built software to people it does matter to, because the software industry is large, but saying 'zero percent of the market isn't willing to pay for it' isn't really wrong. It's just a rounding error that does care.

(One massive caveat though ... the argument assumes that 'hand built' means 'higher quality than AI-assisted', and that's probably not true for >99% of developers.)

lelanthran 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> You took this statistic out of your rear end?

We are less than a year into good-enough coding agents, and as of right now there is not a single job opening I see that offers a salary for non-AI output.

witx 5 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

lelanthran 5 hours ago | parent [-]

That odor you are smelling is entirely generated on your end.

lemiffe 5 hours ago | parent [-]

you are saying this based on your own experience but YMMV, it is not universally true, specially not in developing countries

lelanthran 4 hours ago | parent [-]

> you are saying this based on your own experience but YMMV, it is not universally true, specially not in developing countries

My experience of job postings advertised is exactly the same as everyone else's for the same filters.

This is not a "my personal feeling is that...", this is "I can't find an advertisement, posting or role that doesn't demand, instruct or promise that the successful candidate would be working closely with AI".

We're less than a year in, and I do not see dev jobs advertised on (for example) indeed.com with any sort of criteria omitting AI.

Imagine what it would look like in 5 years.

applfanboysbgon 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I have never used indeed.com before, but I just took a look and the very first software engineer posting I looked at doesn't make a single mention of AI. You have a penchant for making easily falsifiable assertions.

witx 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I guess he's someone with money invested in all this and is astroturfing. I've seen quite a few of them on here

lelanthran 4 hours ago | parent [-]

> I guess he's someone with money invested in all this and is astroturfing.

Says the guy with a pseudonym, active only since 2022.

doctaj 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My company doesnt even let people use AI -- at least not agents (it's recently got blocked because someone learned about all the security team learned about all the vulnerabilities going around a few months ago [eyeroll]. I hired 3 developers in the last year and didn't mention AI in the job posting at all (it wasn't intentially left off... it's just that it has nothing to do with what you'll be doing, one of your goals, or related to driving business outcomes... its just a tool you can use if you want to [and it's unblocked by the corporate overlords]). So... there are companies out there. All the person is trying to say is making broad statements like that there's 0% of companies willing to prioritize quality/craftsmanship/maintainability (if that is the trade off... which is yet to be seen) over velocity. There obviously are places like that out there or there are entire companies or individual teams that prioritize that because the developer culture prioritizes that. Every team and situation is different.

SoftTalker 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Is this like the job ads that demanded 5+ years of experience with React, when React had only been in release for 3 years?

applfanboysbgon 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Exactly zero percent of the market is willing to pay for hand-built software.

This is a provably false statement, given that eg. Handmade Hero exists and sold a bunch of pre-orders despite never coming close to completion, and spawned an entire community that prides themselves on handmade software. There are also content creators like Tsoding who make a living by having people watch them do handmade coding for the love of the craft.

Some non-zero percentage of people will also always be willing to pay a premium for superior-quality software. The author's thesis isn't that LLMs can produce S-grade software but that 'nobody cares' about quality and that C-grade software is good enough. While it's true that software quality isn't greatly valued at scale, I think the minority who care is larger than the minority who care about premium woodworking goods, particularly because as an artisan software developer you more or less have access to the global market of every single person who cares, while as an artisan woodworker you mostly only have access to the market of people in your town who care.

This also overlooks that LLMs are politically divisive and there are movements to boycott them and shame people for using them. There's a niche for organic, free-range, vegan, etc. products at the supermarket for conscientious objectors, there will undoubtedly be such a niche for software. All the more so if LLMs reach a point where they actually are putting everyone out of a job, they will get much more divisive. There was already an assassination attempt against Altman and his promises to destroy everyone's livelihood haven't even come to fruition.

josephg 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Exactly zero percent of the market is willing to pay for hand-built software.

People are increasingly associating “AI art” with cheap slop. I wonder if the same will ever happen to programming.

feelamee 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think this can happen in technical communities - people who can write/read/understand code. Who really cares about software size/performance/usability/minimalism.

This is a small part of the whole users, but.. why not. People who value hand-by wood goods are also a small part.

Also, there are also communities which slow down AI integration - like Zig. Maybe they will alive

abraxas 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No it won't. Everyone knows their favourite film director.

Virtually nobody has their favourite app developer.

avocadoking 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Only if the quality is bad. And users normally can only judge this when something is not working. So maybe only badly written/tested software will get labeled ai slop.

p-e-w 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

People can’t even reliably recognize AI art anymore.

The classic “AI images were everywhere in 2023, but I rarely see them now” phenomenon.

nkrisc 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I see a lot more bad art now. I suspect most of it is AI, but I can’t prove it.

taybin 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What are you talking about? They’re so ubiquitous.

feelamee 2 hours ago | parent [-]

this only ones you can recognize What about others which you think is made by human?