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xp84 6 hours ago

Other than those who commit grave offenses of bodily harm, I reserve my greatest disgust for the type of dirtbag who imposes these orders-of-magnitude greater costs on other innocent people for such a relatively low "reward." They'd burn the Mona Lisa for fuel, melt down the Statue of Liberty for scrap, anything if you let them.

I agree with another commenter here, the overlap of this mindset with tweakers is large.

bandofthehawk 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

In general I agree with you, but it also makes me wonder how these people got to this point. I think most people would burn the Mona Lisa if it meant surviving through a cold night. Our society has failed these people in many ways.

hyperhello 5 hours ago | parent [-]

I don’t see how to blame our society for copper thieves.

bandofthehawk 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Lack of healthcare, limited job opportunities, growing income inequality, are just a few reasons off the top of my head.

bigbuppo 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Local copper thieves that were busted stealing telco lines... they were just looking to make a quick buck regardless of legality or care for the impact it had on other people. They're more like tech company CEOs, really.

peddling-brink 4 hours ago | parent [-]

And these thieves were already well cared for in a healthy society with all sorts of opportunities available to them regardless of social status, skin color, and mental heath?

Crime goes down when the gap between the rich and the poor goes down.

paleotrope 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Drugs. It's usually drugs.

esikich 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Right, why didn't everyone just get good education, dental care, and healthcare, get a car when they're 16, have their parents help them go to college and work for a VC and get rich. Just can't understand it. Truly, an enigma.

TurdF3rguson 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This is what nobody wants to admit, whether it's nature or nurture doesn't matter because you're not in control of either of them. You were born into so and so of a family, and they brought you up with such and such care and values.

The idea that you've been "force of willing" it through your whole life since infancy and are therefore solely accountable for your outcome is absurd. We know that at some level and yet still can't help taking credit for our nice things and passing judgment on others for their failings.

esikich 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This site is so fuckin out of touch with the average American I can help but get pissed off after a few beers on the weekend. The tech stuff is good, but the social/political stuff here drives me nuts.

gonight 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

As someone who grew up on food stamps, I'd fully believe the mean and median income on hackernews are six figure numbers.

esikich an hour ago | parent [-]

At least. And also living in a metropolis, in a burrough where SaaS is the only way of life and all of the benefits of society come from NPCs.

georgemcbay 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> This site is so fuckin out of touch with the average American I can help but get pissed off after a few beers on the weekend. The tech stuff is good, but the social/political stuff here drives me nuts.

A lot of people on this site have no concept of what it is like to grow up unprivileged (they think they do, but to them that means growing up merely upper middle class as opposed to ridiculously wealthy) but as bad as it can be sometimes it has actually gotten a bit better in recent years.

There used to be an even higher concentration of ultra-libertarian "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" posters who clearly never had to do that themselves to anywhere near the extent they believed they had.

Terr_ an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> taking credit for our nice things and passing judgment on others

Do you think it's more Fundamental Attribution Error [0] (not exercising empathy or an incomplete view of others' problems) or more Just World Fallacy [1] (believing the universe works a certain way)?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_fallacy

RcouF1uZ4gsC 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> We know that at some level and yet still can't help taking credit for our nice things and passing judgment on others for their failings.

Is that blameworthy?

esikich 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes.

arjie 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Realistically, if these are the minimum conditions to reduce this kind of low-gain amplified damage, then I suspect that most people will rapidly conclude that the cost-benefit leans in the direction of immediately severing these people from the rest of society. Since the cost to deliver a sequence of events like you describe to everyone is extraordinary (and realistically unavailable even to the richest nations today) a more feasible solution is incarceration of people for a first offense for a sufficiently long time that they are simply not present to commit the crime again.

esikich 2 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

hyperhello 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My general rule for posting sarcasm is to phrase it seriously first and see if it's something I still want to post.

esikich 4 hours ago | parent [-]

How did it go for this one?

5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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vostrocity 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A topic I'm interested in that is upstream of what you're saying is the propagation of meaning. If somebody has no idea what the Mona Lisa or the Statue of Liberty are, then we can't really bemoan that they would not ascribe any value to it beyond its raw material.

dylan604 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I could understand looking at the Mona Lisa and not being impressed that it's something considered of great value. On the other hand, the sheer size of the Statue of Liberty makes that impossible to misconstrue.

themafia 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They didn't ask to be born and have never been given an opportunity to approve the society they're born into. The price of non-conformance is deprivation, punishment and incarceration. We should rethink this.

NoMoreNicksLeft an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This could be made a serious felony. If the thief doesn't plan for or attempt to get say, 25% of fair market value or replacement cost (whichever is higher), multiply the penalty by 5 years, no chance of parole.

Though I don't know if there are enough prisons for all those stealing catalytic converters.

mslt 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I’d suggest considering empathy once you get past the anger, their former selves would be equally repulsed by their behavior, and for many I expect their current selves feel similarly despite their lack of control. The villains here aren’t the broken people.

jdross 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The villains are the people who let these people continue to commit crimes and make life worse for others in the name of empathy instead of quickly and forcefully moving them into compassionate care where they have any chance of recovering and joining the vast majority as contributors to society.

Blackthorn 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Compassionate care does not exist for people like this.

5 hours ago | parent [-]
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laughing_man 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The villains are those of us who tolerate this kind of behavior in the name of compassion.

TurdF3rguson 5 hours ago | parent [-]

You shouldn't tolerate the behavior, but announcing disgust for people who are struggling is just not helpful.

laughing_man 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Lots of people who are struggling don't become thieves.

TurdF3rguson 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Right, like I said don't tolerate the behavior, but that doesn't mean every thief is an irredeemable piece of shit who doesn't deserve help or empathy.

There should be something in the middle, I hope we can agree on that. We're talking about addiction and property damage here, not a homicidal psychopath.

5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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