As I wrote in another reply, I meant “hedonism” in its non-colloquial, neutral sense, i.e. the pursuit of individual pleasure and happiness above all else, which was a mistake on my part. My general point is that all the activities I listed (which only become abundantly available in rich, industrialized societies) yield more individual pleasure than having children.

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Supernaut 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I've heard a lot of vox pops in recent years on the subject of why young couples where I live are not starting families, and by far the most common reason given is that the cost of living has risen to such an extent that they feel that rearing children has become unaffordable. It's not a yearning for hedonism that's dissuading them, it's the fact that they can't even afford to buy somewhere to live.

I won't comment on your assertion that the freedom to watch "adult-appropriate movies on a big TV in the living room" is a more fulfilling state of being than parenthood, except to say that I'm very grateful that I'm not that shallow.

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MontyCarloHall 2 hours ago | parent [-]

>[B]y far the most common reason given is that the cost of living has risen to such an extent that they feel that rearing children has become unaffordable.

That's certainly a factor, though very aggressive financial incentives for parents don't seem to work very well [0, 1, 2]. Not to mention that in rich countries, educational attainment and income are negatively correlated with fertility [3]. My theory there is that people's high-powered careers provide them more self-satisfaction than having kids.

>it's the fact that they can't even afford to buy somewhere to live.

It's funny you mention this. Some friends said they weren't having a second kid because they couldn't afford a three bedroom house, not realizing that kids sharing bedrooms was the norm for middle class families until very recently. Having one bedroom per kid was a luxury just 30-40 years ago.

>I won't comment on your assertion that the freedom to watch "adult-appropriate movies on a big TV in the living room" is a more fulfilling state of being than parenthood

It's not my assertion, it's something a couple deciding to not have another kid literally told me. They missed being able to have substantial amounts of adult time, and were actively counting down the days until their only child was old enough to amuse himself for long periods of time. Having another kid would reset that clock.

[0] https://www.economist.com/europe/2026/03/19/viktor-orbans-pr...

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/28/south-korea-fe...

[2] https://worldcrunch.com/culture-society/boosting-birth-rates...

[3] https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/society-at-a-glance-202...

	▲	dh2022 an hour ago \| parent \| next [-]
		The incentives you mentioned are meek, the opposite of aggressive. Here is a list of aggressive incentives that will never happen in the US: 1. Fully paid daycare for every week with more than 30 hours worked by any parent 2. Fully paid healthcare until 18 years old 3. Fully paid after elementary school care for every week with more than 30 hours worked by any parent.
	▲	nemomarx an hour ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		How aggressive are those incentives really, compared to cost of childcare? Do they fully cover the cost of daycare and education for the kids for 18 years, alongside paying for a larger home? > But financial and other inducements are failing to convince couples who cite skyrocketing child-rearing costs and property prices, a lack of well-paid jobs and the country’s cut-throat education system as obstacles to having bigger families. I know South Korea has both expensive cram schools and a difficult housing market. If the incentives aren't as large as the additional costs from child raising, does it really tell us anything? Ideally you'd want it to exceed those costs. Of course, that might be impractical or impossible for a government to fund, which is something.