Remix.run Logo
efitz 2 hours ago

This was the most one-sided article I’ve seen in a while.

I didn’t see one word describing why the administration felt this was the correct decision.

All I saw was moral judgment and condemnation, as if describing the actual motivations of the actors would have been a pointless exercise.

I’m not defending the administration. I know nothing about Atlantic currents or this particular monitoring project or the groups that operated it. But I do know that there are two sides to every conflict.

This article failed on any level to help me make an informed decision. And the one-sided presentation makes me much more suspicious of the motives of the publisher and therefore of the validity of their position.

dclowd9901 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

https://archive.is/fZ9CN

> Michael England, a spokesman for the National Science Foundation, said the decision to dismantle the network, known as the Ocean Observatories Initiative, “aligns with N.S.F.’s wider strategy to have a nimbler approach to prioritizing support for evolving scientific priorities and emerging technologies as well as a deliberate approach to smart life cycle management within its portfolio of research infrastructure.”

1) it's not hard to do your own research. If you're here, I assume you know how.

2) does that answer satisfy you? The bullshitty word salad doesn't surprise me. With this administration I expect incompetence and double speak and am rarely disappointed. I wonder why at this point in time you choose to give them so much leeway.

x-complexity an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> 1) it's not hard to do your own research. If you're here, I assume you know how.

Assume the opposite direction. If you don't bring the data, then you're not doing your part to convince others on your position. Assumption of "default data" is a significant contributor in the breakdown of communications.

> 2) does that answer satisfy you?

No, in fact it leaves open more questions than before. From the article provided (https://archive.is/fZ9CN):

>> The $48 million annual budget for the observation network was small compared with the value of the data it collected for understanding the oceans and the climate, Dr. McLean said.

- Why didn't aligned charities step in to plug the gap? Billions flow through charities each year, and yet none have stepped in? One or 2 stepping in and still not being able to plug the gap, I can accept. None at all?

- If the data is that important, then there should be multiple efforts in collecting it, not just one. Why did everything get lumped into a single basket?

Domenic_S an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> 1) it's not hard to do your own research. If you're here, I assume you know how.

What an awful take. The point of news shouldn't be "assume I'm right and the readership takes my word for it". It should help the reader come to a conclusion, because it's news and not opinion. If you have to go do your own research not to dig deeper but because the article failed to even cover the basic arguments, it has utterly and completely failed.

khafra 18 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You're correct that, generally speaking, policy debates should not appear one-sided (https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/PeSzc9JTBxhaYRp9b/policy-deb...). We should put very little prior weight on the hypothesis that one side is actual cartoon villains, from a children's TV show, with the simple goal of looting the system and no concern for how much of the future they destroy while doing so.

However, to be effective reasoners, we can't assign that hypothesis 0 prior probability; and once sufficient evidence has come in, our posterior distribution must shift.

I don't think there's any reasonable case for shutting down an early warning system which costs around the price of the new white house thunderdome every decade, and instead waiting to find out AMOC has collapsed when Scotland is hemmed in by year-round ocean ice and agriculture is impossible in Western Europe.

Stranded assets alone, in the latter case, will easily run to hundreds of billions. Knowing when to change crop profiles, reinsuance schedules, etc., would save much more.

Mathnerd314 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This may help https://www.workboat.com/white-house-budget-would-slash-noaa...

The administration wanted to eliminate everything ocean-related, seems like they are doing it program by program and this is yet another. Probably explains the lack of context, this is like article 20 about program closures (and maybe 200+ more to go)

throwawaycan 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ah! Both siding science.

kyrra an hour ago | parent [-]

A point that can be made is that just throwing money at something that doesn't produce meaningful results can be good to cut. having a bunch of data for data sake doesn't make it useful.

ImPostingOnHN an hour ago | parent [-]

in order for that point to be made, there would first need to be a convincing case made that this thing doesn't produce meaningful results

lovelearning 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> I know nothing about Atlantic currents or this particular monitoring project

That's the problem.

> This article failed on any level to help me make an informed decision.

You shouldn't rely on just one article to make an "informed decision." Indeed, anyone who genuinely wants to make "informed decisions" must cultivate the habit of actively seeking out to be better informed rather than passively relying on a single article.

There's an entire chain of events that the links in this article lead to...

...The NSF is descoping.

...It's descoping because of federal funding cuts to science projects

...Federal funding cuts are due to the pro-fossil-fuel biases and climate change skepticism of the rightwing Trump admin and its backers. Their ideological strategy to redesign American society, Project 2025, specifically mentions disbanding this very monitoring project.

I was able to find that all out in about 15 minutes though I'm neither American nor reside there or anywhere close to it.

A performative pretense of informed decision making is not the same as genuinely making informed decisions.

syradar 9 minutes ago | parent [-]

Your explanation is what I would expect the article to cover. The article clearly has failed to provide meaningful context.