| ▲ | American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn(economist.com) |
| 85 points by andsoitis 2 hours ago | 52 comments |
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| ▲ | Stitch4223 30 minutes ago | parent | next [-] |
| > Perhaps the danger is not 2008, 1999, 1973 or even 1873, but 1789. 1789 was the year of the French Revolution [1]. The rest are years with financial crises. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution |
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| ▲ | avidiax 6 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | The French Revolution is no longer possible. The surveillance state plus wealth mobility means the wealthy will be in New Zealand before anyone erects a guillotine, and the people that would foment a revolution are heavily surveilled and infiltrated. | |
| ▲ | BurningFrog 7 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The French Revolution was an orgy in mass murder that led to the slaughter of millions in the Napoleon wars. It really need to be romantizied much less! | |
| ▲ | dwabyick 9 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Oh it’s definitely starting to feel like 1789 vibes. The oligarchs have taken too much, too fast. |
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| ▲ | randycupertino 29 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I would say with inflation, wealth inequality and skyrocketing housing, gas and grocery prices as well as super high amounts of consumer debt and families stretching to keep up it feels a lot like pre-bust 2005/2006 economy out there right now. We might not be on the cusp of a subprime mortgage bank crisis but it does feel ominous lately. |
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| ▲ | maxdo 9 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | You just named symptoms not cause. 1. People vote for old idiots . 2. Local politics is all about milking any potential work with permits. Sky rocket housing due to that . 3. American lost engineering culture everywhere except software . Now software is dead as industry we used to know | | |
| ▲ | jjtheblunt 7 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > American lost engineering culture everywhere except software microprocessor design : Apple Silicon and lately Intel Panther Lake and later? |
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| ▲ | WalterBright 23 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > wealth inequality How does creating wealth hurt others? > skyrocketing housing High prices are the result of shortages. When the government makes it hard to get a permit, or simply doesn't allow housing to be built, and add 12 million people, then prices inevitably go up. | | |
| ▲ | abuob 12 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | If you're genuinely curious, a few suggestions that I personally found incredibly enlightening: Anand Giridhardas, Winners Take All: The book is fantastic, there's also his now infamous google talk where he talks about dismantling google: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d_zt3kGW1NM Thomas Piketty, Capital in the 21st century: Probably the most comprehensive (but at times also longwinded) outline on how wealth inequality comes to be, why it's not good for society and how it could be adressed | | |
| ▲ | galaxyLogic 4 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I was just thinking about it, rich people have money to spend in elections to get their representatives elected. When they do they make laws, or make no laws, to help rich get richer, so they have more money to spend in the next election. And so it goes. Solution might be some legislation that puts limits on how much money each person can spend on elections. But it may be too late, there are so many rich people in the congress that such laws can not pass. The rich not only want to get richer they also want the lower classes to get poorer so they will work for less and will have to work longer hours so they will have less time and money to educate themselves and thus remain clueless about what is going on. | |
| ▲ | WalterBright 10 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | How about a summary of Piketty's argument? We could start off with how are you worse off because of people wealthier than you? | | |
| ▲ | crummy 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I have not read Piketty. But I could imagine a society where the poor are 10% better off and the rich are 1000% better off to be a less stable society that ends up falling apart. | |
| ▲ | rileymat2 2 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | It’s a rather public example but DOGE did immense damage and was facilitated by the ability to leverage wealth into power. There is a dangerous feedback cycle. |
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| ▲ | wvenable 7 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > How does creating wealth hurt others? Creating wealth doesn't. Extracting wealth does. We have long switched from a creating economy to an extracting economy. | |
| ▲ | 10000truths 3 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Wealth inequality doesn't come from the creation of wealth, it comes from the destruction of it. Inflation and rising prices of "staple goods" (there is some covariance, but the latter seems to be outpacing the former) impact poor people disproportionately hard because the marginal utility of an extra dollar is much higher for those on the poverty line vs. someone who is a multi-millionaire. | |
| ▲ | rickydroll 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | When your part in wealth creation is having your wealth acquired by somebody else. Wealth creation only works when the the money available to buy wealth creating instruments is significantly less than the value of those instruments. How would markets behave if investment accounts had more cash in them than there were investment vehicles? I suspect it would be like what we see today in private equity with illiquid funds and subpar returns. The response of a market in this condition would be to look for sources of liquid funds, get them to buy the illiquid funds so that the original investors could get out leaving the new investors holding the bag of crap. Oh wait, isn't private equity doing just that trying to make PE acceptable investment vehicle for 401ks? | |
| ▲ | staplers 10 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | How does creating wealth hurt others?
Inflation. If i print $1 trillion dollars, i buy up all the resources you need to live and dangle them in front of you and control every aspect of your life. | |
| ▲ | ares623 20 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | "create" | | |
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| ▲ | dotcoma an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| https://archive.is/q1GxG |
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| ▲ | Teknomadix 38 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Isn't there a better alternative to this archive site? | | |
| ▲ | dotcoma 27 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | It does the job for me, but please do tell me if you find a better alternative. | |
| ▲ | LargoLasskhyfv 21 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | What's wrong with it? It shows the article, with a little banner on top, showing when it was captured. Doesn't mess with scrolling, what's not to like? | | |
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| ▲ | tjwebbnorfolk 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Author appears to take resilience and preparedness to the logical extreme and mistake it for some kind of doomsday worship. Indeed, the rise of armchair-eschatologists is at an all-time high. This article is a much better example of such thinking than the likes of Anduril and Anthropic. |
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| ▲ | Frieren a minute ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Fascism needs existential threats. Nobody in their sane mind will accept their hateful ideology if they were not desperate, and in panic. > A millenarian economy is necessarily a paranoid one. The economy does not need to be paranoid, it becomes paranoid with inequality increases the stakes on everything, when you can be obscenely rich or depressingly poor and there is no in between. That makes reasonable people paranoid. High equality with opportunities for everyone makes people reasonable and wanting to work for the common good. > “Merely regulating it is insufficient,” wrote Pope Leo XIV in a 40,000-word essay on AI last month. “It must be disarmed.” Of all the messages, the Pope was far from "apocalyptic". He was trying to defend the working class and avoid discrimination and xenophobia embedded in the models. No, end of times bullshit. > If things are so dire, why are American stocks so expensive? Because it is disconnected from the average working class experience. "Everything is good because stocks are up" is a non sequitur (except for the people that only care about their portfolio). |
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| ▲ | seydor 13 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Is it true that Thiel moved to Argentina |
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| ▲ | matrix87 16 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'm kind of confused. It's not clear to me how or why the line keeps going up. People are spending less because of economic insecurity, everything is more expensive because of tariffs and war, interest rates have been high for four years. The general cultural mood feels unsustainable. Like the peak-woke period around 2022 before the pendulum swung really hard in the opposite direction. I don't know if there's a word for it, but I feel like the US has this tendency of trying to shove cultural change down people's throats in a really top-down manner that tends to backfire. At least one really positive outcome from this whole """AI""" movement thing is that class consciousness has been increased quite a bit from it. If you're a capitalist, it's better to be one quietly and fuck people over in secret instead of painting a huge political target on your back. They've done the opposite of this. And one key difference here is that the early 2020s DEI movement had way more people behind it. This is just a small group of rich people. Either the market is going to crash and they'll end up getting humiliated, or there will be a wave of populist backlash. In either case, we (people working in tech, SWEs, HWEs, etc) will probably get fucked over even worse than how it's been over the last couple years. |
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| ▲ | aeternum 15 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I thought the Economist used to have much higher quality articles. Where is the historical analysis? Is it more apocalyptic now than during the cold war when kids hid under their desks? Did America really win the space race because of a presidential speech or was it the apocalyptic threat that if we lose, we will all live under communist rule? Would American manufacturing have ever caught up to Germany if it weren't for the existential threat of the world wars? Perhaps American capitalism has always thrived on fear of the apocalypse. |
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| ▲ | anon291 a minute ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| No ones labor is worthless. Guys this is so retarded but I understand why tech people find this difficult. Humanity runs off of romance. This is not sexual romantic love but rather the thrill of other human people. An AI cannot provide this. This interaction has value. Technology frees us from having to deal with the mundane so we can deal with the exemplary. Just go to a poorer country and see that it is not possible there. America is friggin awesome. |
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| ▲ | saltyoldman 13 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| No reason to black pill. Tons of opportunities - be creative. |
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| ▲ | sghiassy 38 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| We came back from the gilded age. So there’s hope right? |
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| ▲ | aussieguy1234 7 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| With investments AI and robotics automation, I've long been convinced that capitalism is going to eat off its own head, even before the current AI boom. The general public won't accept a system where only a small few have the means to get by and without much work being available to humans anymore, we'll need an alternative economic system, or face serious civil unrest. With capitalism, for work to be done, you need the possibility of homelessness and/or other types of poverty to motivate humans to work. But that isn't required for robots. |
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| ▲ | anon291 6 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| America is a communist nation since the majority of the populace holds the majority of the productive capacity in joint ownership |
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| ▲ | dionian 36 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| "much of wall street is in a fatalistic mood" yeah the SPY is going vertical, sure sure. |
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| ▲ | cm2012 32 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Yeah, this article does not seem evidence backed to me. There is a ton of optimism now. | | |
| ▲ | Obscurity4340 28 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Isnt Economist , like, a super prestigious publication? Why would they let something flimsy seep thru? | | |
| ▲ | matrix87 13 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Zerohedge is probably more reliable at this point | |
| ▲ | janderson215 24 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | I know someone who has called it “The Ecommunist” for 20 years, so not everybody has the opinion that is is prestigious, but some see it as elitist. | | |
| ▲ | VonGuard 13 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Calling the Economist anything resembling "leftist" is emblematic of the psychosis in the system. The Economist is what the Wall Street Journal was before Murdoch bought it: Focused on encouraging long term thinking, gains, and wisdom, while reporting on the short term trends. The Economist is the absolute embodiment of the old man and the kid joke from the Sopranos: The investor: "Hey dad, let's run down this hill and fuck that cow!" The Economist: "Be patient, son. Let's walk down this hill and fuck 'em all." |
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| ▲ | pfisch 15 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | How though...there is no reasonable way anyone could look at the oil futures price and think it isn't being manipulated, which suggests maybe a lot of the market is equally fake. Also SpaceX is getting ready to cheat SPY so the owners can basically use everyone's retirement funds as their exit liquidity. All the AI companies seem like they are a massive bubble that they are also going to try to dump on the market in what I'm sure will be a similar scheme. Then in politics we seem to be driving the US empire into the ground, while Trump steals billions. In just the last year Trump stole more than 10x Pelosi's entire net worth from her entire 40 year career in politics. The corruption coming from the white house is so extreme, it is probably more than all us politicians have stolen in all of us history combined. And what is absolutely insane is that a huge portion of the population seems to be in favor of it continuing this way. We are speedrunning the end of the US empire, when it could've been a slow US decline that could've lasted the next 40 years which would've given us a chance to turn things around. |
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| ▲ | Schnitz 26 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | You can be in a fatalistic mood and buy. |
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| ▲ | datadrivenangel 42 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Is there any graceful way to let the pressure out of the system and begin rebuilding trust and stability or is the only way out to immanentize the eschaton? |
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| ▲ | VonGuard 21 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Legislation and court rulings have shown that shareholders get everything they want, ever. They want Southwest to stop checking 2 free bags? It happens. Etc. Ad Nauseum. Somehow, we need legislation that says companies are beholden first to their employees, then to their customers, THEN to shareholders. I don't know how to do that. Co-ops are the only real answer maybe? | |
| ▲ | denkmoon 26 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It would require participation by all strata of society. So no. | |
| ▲ | ggm 20 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Fnord! |
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