Remix.run Logo
hootz 4 hours ago

>Email from SingCERT stating vendor "do not consider this to be a vulnerability, as it does not present a cybersecurity risk."

So wirelessly writing custom firmware to someone else's device that is connected via USB to their computer without even needing to pair is not a security vulnerability. Yea.

jeroenhd 4 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

The same can be said about any computer that runs macOS or Windows. Being able to run your own software doesn't have to be a vulnerability per se.

The reflashing interface being available over Bluetooth is weird but you will need physical access to pair with the speaker AFAIK

Edit: I was wrong, this is a BTLE endpoint that works without pairing. In that case, this is a ridiculous vulnerability. I hope they'll patch it in a way that doesn't take away the ability to run your own software.

Uncle_Brumpus 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"You can just make it type words, what's the risk in that?"

Makes you wonder what other peripheral companies out there are also operating with seemingly no security team. There must be other vulnerabilities like this just waiting to be discovered.

My brother was awoken one morning at 2am because some neighborhood kids connected to his bluetooth speaker and blasted fart sounds on loop at max volume, and that's literally only the absolute tippy top of the malicious bluetooth use iceberg.

phh 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> "You can just make it type words, what's the risk in that?"

I don't know if it's a useful answer to people saying this kind of stuff, but here are some examples of other attacks arbitrary USB pwn allows.

A USB device can appear as a network adapter and most OS will happily route all your traffic there, so your speaker can know which porn you're looking at!

It can also appear as a DisplayLink dongle, so it can see what's on the screen (it does require those specific drivers installed, and uh yeah, no way in hell it's technically possible on that MCU).

It can also turn it into a mouse jiggler to prevent lock screen (yes it's technically the same thing as your first point, just HID, but different angle).

It can also appear as a USB-storage: You don't trust the cloud, so you're writing those super secret documents to give to your boss on the USB drive you just plugged in? Surprise, you actually sent it to the attacker.

hootz 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Oh yeah, for some reason the companies with the highest risk products seem to be the ones that care less about security. Don't even get me started with "smart" bulbs and cameras that each individually connect to your local network and the Internet. You have 5 lightbulbs? That's 5 different devices you need to track, keep updated and trust the in the vendor firmware's security.

zahlman 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> "smart" bulbs

Thankfully I don't think I've seen these for sale.

What sensors would they have that could be exploited by an attacker?

duckmysick 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You don't need to exploit sensors. If a compromised device is connected to the internet (because the vendor app requires it to set up and control), you can use it as a part of botnet with a nice residential IP address.

zeta0134 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Shopping in the US, these have entirely replaced zigbee and other sensible mesh-based options at hardware stores like Home Depot and Lowes. The only exception I can find is Phillips Hue, and those seem to be slowly getting phased out with (sigh) a new "hubless" (requires wifi) series.

I run my home automation network entirely offline, so anything that needs the internet doesn't get added to my cart. I just do not trust the security of these IoT vendors at all, and refuse to have their nonsense cluttering up my limited network bandwidth and causing unknown problems.

(Edit: maybe not obvious, this is in the "smart bulbs" product category. Regular bulbs are still much more common on store shelves, because why fix what isn't broken? Most people don't need to automate their light bulbs.)

rcxdude 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Probably most of them. It's not exactly an area with a great focus on quality, let alone security.

gorbachev 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That answer will change very quickly, if someone marches to a Creative show room, sales event or CES and "patches" all of their devices.

protimewaster 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't even remember what it is I have learned about Creative Labs in the past, but I went into this pretty sure that Creative Labs was going to fuck it up somehow.

riedel 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This quote on risk seems to completely misunderstand the concept of risk. First we have a vulnerability ( IMHO that is equals a hazard), then we assign both impact and probability and only then we get risk. By definition there are IMHO always vulnerabilities with low impact or low probability and thus low risk. While CVEs have some score, the actual risk and later accepting those risks before or after mitigations is up to the use case to define. No risk => no vulnerability is flawed reasoning by design. No vulnerability => no risk, I think is the only thing we can agree on.

zmysysz 3 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

semiquaver 31 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In reality, even if they did recognize the severity of this problem, they likely view the cost to remediate it as prohibitive, as it would involve reworking their whole weird janky system. So better to pretend they don’t have to deal with security.

xnickb 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah, but we already sold the device, so it's someone else's problem. Now if they were paying us a subscription fee..

3form 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

AND being able to further reprogram the device to gain control of the PC.

This is negligence of the highest kind.

HarHarVeryFunny 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sounds like Microsoft too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kxx5xp5nTQ

KurSix 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The vendor response is the more worrying part

iso1631 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> SingCERT dropped the case

I expect some dodgy company to try to shirk out of it, I don't expect a country's cybersecurity agency to do so

throwwwll 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Morons they are.

m3kw9 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

probably not high enough risk to consider one on their list. First you need someone to be physically in there, 2nd the person needs to have a USB speaker connected, which means is likely a home. 3rd if it's a restaurant or something you need the thing to not play anything first with a lot of restaurant noise

hootz an hour ago | parent | next [-]

First, you need a skiddie neighbor who knows about your speaker and has an AI agent that can read this article, 2nd...

praptak an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> First you need someone to be physically in there

Bluetooth works fine through walls.