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palata 4 hours ago

Good arguments there, and for once addressing privacy-preserving age verification.

I just don't like that proponents of age verification are systematically (including in this article) dismissed as authoritarians hiding behind "just another “what about the children” excuse to introduce mass surveillance and censorship". Many people genuinely want to find a solution that is better for the children, and telling them "if you are open to age verification you are either a fascist or a moron" is not constructive.

Also I find the way ZKP is criticised a bit manipulative. It kinda implies that "fundamentally, any kind of ZKP system can be switched off remotely and without anyone realising", and that is wrong. It can be implemented in such a way that people have pretty good guarantees about it preserving their privacy, similar to end-to-end encryption. I find it hypocritical to say "E2EE can be reasonably trusted, but privacy-preserving age verification fundamentally cannot", just because tech people like the former and not the latter.

mhurron 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Many people genuinely want to find a solution that is better for the children

at the expense of everyone and everything else all to not have to be an actual parent.

These arguments are not coming from places of concern, they are coming from laziness and people taking advantage of that laziness to further even worse agendas.

4 hours ago | parent [-]
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Avicebron 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Do you believe people should be able to traverse the internet anonymously?

AuthAuth 19 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Why should you be able to traverse the internet anonymously? You cannot traverse real life society with the same expectations. Majority of the people traversing anonymously are doing so because they are routine troublemakers and do not want to bare consequences for their malicious actions. The ones fighting for this complete anonymity but not doing crime are naively just sweeping for bad actors.

ElProlactin 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You can't. Even if you haven't registered or logged in, companies like Facebook have identified you and track you everywhere you go.

nullsex 4 hours ago | parent [-]

[dead]

4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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Xorakios 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes. At least to read.

3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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JohnMakin 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There is a solution, it is regulating social media companies to stop abusing their users, and by extension, children. strict laws around adtech and tracking tech. more consumer rights, in other words - that’s why this solution comes off as authoritarian, because there is such a variety of ways to tackle this problem, and this is the most authoritarian one.

QuadmasterXLII 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Parents need to either control the internet, or control their children’s devices and screentime. The latter sounds like the obvious option, except that Google wants every second grader to have a school-mismanaged chromebook and Google wants to mediate control of the internet, and by pushing parents to the former they win on both fronts.

benfortuna 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Requiring parents to police their child's every move is not going to end well.

cdrnsf 4 hours ago | parent [-]

And having the state do it is better?

idiotsecant 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Age verification literally already exists in a way that doesn't require orwellian centralized control. The <meta rating> tag has existed for decades. If you want to restrict access force websites to apply these tags, then use a browser that obeys them. Parents control what their kids access, mostly, like it's been since forever.

Think carefully about why a politician might disregard this extremely simple mechanism and you'll have your answer about the real goals here

userbinator 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Many people genuinely want to find a solution that is better for the children, and telling them "if you are open to age verification you are either a fascist or a moron" is not constructive.

We know they'll take a mile if you give them an inch. Ditto with "trusted" computing and the rest of that wormcan. That's why the opposition has to be absolute.

homeonthemtn 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Sure but that absolute opposition hasn't, as far I can tell at least, achieved an iota of success. So it's largely a self indulgent merit badge than an actual strategy.

benfortuna 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Who is this "they" you speak of?

We have age verification for all kinds of things that can harm minors. Most of them have adequate penalties for breach such that operators of said harms ensure they comply (checks for ID when selling alcohol, entry to over-18s pubs/clubs, etc.)

There's nothing sinister going on here, just attempts to prevent social/mental harm to minors.

esseph 4 hours ago | parent [-]

> There's nothing sinister going on here

There absolutely is you're just not aware of it.

This whole thing is meta financially backing right wing conservative groups that want age verification because meta wants to avoid liability for the harms their platforms cause.

In addition, this is the beginning of the end of any sort of anonymity on the internet, which has disastrous consequences for politically minded individuals, minority populations, or targets of stalking. This is a privacy nightmare bring pushed through in the guise of "muh children".

3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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