| ▲ | deburo an hour ago |
| When was it different? I never saw that in big corporations, only SMBs when the founders were still at the helm. |
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| ▲ | arkh an hour ago | parent | next [-] |
| My theory is: when it started being a bad thing to have any cash reserve. With some reserve on the side, a company can survive bad times and not fire people. This is the kind of behavior employee will appreciate and make some diehard loyal. But this available money is money not making more. So that's a bad thing these days and so the only easy variable available to survive is to remove excess workforce. It took some time for people to understand loyalty has been one-way only but now employers are reaping what they've sown. |
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| ▲ | smallmancontrov an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| There was famously an inflection point 40-50 years ago where wages decoupled from productivity to the downside. I'm sure it wasn't perfect before then, but things did change. |
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| ▲ | altairprime an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | The last time we hit this low point was in the Gilded Age, when the economic producers essentially revolted and forced governments to regulate against capitalistic greed. As you correctly identify, in the early 80s U.S. leadership figured out that if you issue debt more freely then you can get the economic growth of ‘household spend goes up’, ‘production and GDP goes up’, and ‘foreign currencies weaken versus the dollar’ without having to force* corporations to pay out profits as wage increases against their will. One bonus outcome is that you end up with lifelong debtors who are forced to accept work circumstances that they wouldn’t have to accept if they still had wage negotiating power. Too bad about the demonization of unions in tech, eh? * A tax on (gross revenue – wages – cogs) with rate (cpi + fedrate) ^ 0.9 would be an excellent start, with an exponential factor that halts ‘shift the tax to consumers through simple price increases’ — the more you earn, the more you have to raise prices, which raises inflation, which raises your future tax by more than your price increase; the more revenue you pay out as wages instead of shareholder dividends, the lower you can set prices, which lowers inflation, which lowers your future tax — and adding the FFER lever allows the Fed to perform their mission to control (price) inflation not only with banks but also with businesses. For example, (8% inflation + 4% fedrate) ^ .9 is ~14.8%, which is a completely acceptable surcharge for businesses having raised prices so high that it caused an 8% inflation year! | |
| ▲ | 21asdffdsa12 24 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Correlating not causating with the first working spyplanes and spysats going over the soviet union. | |
| ▲ | TheRoque an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Are you talking about the end of the Bretton-Woods agreement? https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/ I mean, it's cherry picked, but still funny to see all those charts. | | |
| ▲ | b112 2 minutes ago | parent [-] | | When I looked at this, the first thing which popped into my mind came from the 95th percentile graph... third one I think. If you're a CTO, CEO, CxO, you have direct, in depth knowledge to how the company is doing. You also likely have insight into how that translates into free capital to spend on wages. Many companies are not public, and even when companies are, earning reports aren't easy for a line worker to fully understand. So if you have that knowledge, it's much easier to push back when someone says a wage increase isn't possible. Such as the board, or the CEO (eg, if CTO, or whatever). This by no means "makes it fair", it's simply that the inequality may be from knowledge, and therefore bargaining power. Another aspect of things, is that every CxO class worker can agree, their knowledge is very very important, irreplaceable in fact! Upper management, you see, is quite valuable, as of course (from their perspective) "I'm irreplaceable and valuable!". Who doesn't think they have value, after all? But.. those line workers, or even those engineers, well.. they're like cogs. One as another. Some might attribute malice to the above to thoughts by CxO class individuals, but it can also simply be driven by self-belief in innate value, and by good old ego. |
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| ▲ | 9rx an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Obviously wages and productivity had to decouple. Wages measure human labor, while productivity measures all output, including that which comes from automation. ~50 years ago is when automation started to become more than a curiosity in industry. Human productivity to wages have kept pace with each other, though, so there is nothing to suggest anything has changed for the human. It is not like the robots are seeking promotions (yet). | | |
| ▲ | contagiousflow an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | > ~50 years ago is when automation started to become more than a curiosity in industry Where did you get that idea from? | | |
| ▲ | bryanrasmussen 36 minutes ago | parent [-] | | The PLC, Programmable Logic Controller, was 1968. After which it started to become possible to have automated assembly lines with a few humans monitoring specialized robots. |
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| ▲ | mullingitover 34 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Wages measure human labor, while productivity measures all output, including that which comes from automation. Until we have sentient robots, all that automation is simply a lever with a human laborer at the end of it. |
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| ▲ | rustystump an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | If this is what i think it is, then yes. Life for humans has rarely been fair but that inflection point is startling. It tracks the wealth gap growing too irrc. |
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| ▲ | unethical_ban an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| 30 years ago and prior for a generation or two. Employees had pensions instead of 401ks where tenure built up a guaranteed fixed income payment at retirement. Now we're all tied to the stock market. Oh, and back then a single income could support a working-class family to buy a decent house, two cars and maybe send a kid or two to college. |
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| ▲ | jandrewrogers 31 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | 401k became a thing in part because of deep structural problems with employee pensions. Pensions don't "guarantee" anything in practice and many people lost them or had steep cuts. It is a promise, not a law of physics. 401k/IRA wasn't created for no reason. Pensions are exposed to much more idiosyncratic risk than a 401k and companies are poorly positioned to manage those risks. Some people might not want to take responsibility for retirement savings in the same way they might not want to take responsibility for providing themselves housing but the alternative is strictly worse. The only pensions that kind of work is government pensions because they can paper over the structural deficiencies with taxation. But even that has significant limitations as we've seen. A 401k isn't required to be invested in the stock market. It is advisable but not required. | |
| ▲ | hylaride an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Those pensions could also be tied to the market, or more often the profitability of the company that ran it. There are many, many cases of underfunded pensions by bankrupt companies causing issues. All being equal, I'll take the job hopping and my own retirement account. I agree it's more expensive than ever to afford to raise a family, though. There's also a malaise in the air that I don't think broader society has felt since the late 1970s, too. | |
| ▲ | AnimalMuppet 24 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Those "guarantees" could be lost in a bankruptcy, though. So that world wasn't as ideal as some make it sound. Losing your job is bad; losing your job and your retirement is a nightmare. |
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| ▲ | darth_avocado an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| 20-30 years ago in private sector. Still is in government. |
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| ▲ | barbazoo an hour ago | parent [-] | | I'm having a hard time finding data on employee tenure that would support this. There seems to be a recent dip but it's only significant relatively, not in absolute numbers based on what I expected. Which was something like 25 years tenure not that long ago but that wasn't the case, more like 5. |
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| ▲ | Rp8yXmdmr an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
| The thing that changed was perception. People no longer believe loyalty to employer is worthwhile, just as they no longer believe hard work is what gets people rich. |
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| ▲ | voakbasda an hour ago | parent [-] | | They no longer believe it is worthwhile, because the landscape changed: companies found they no longer needed to treat their employees was well as they had. (Driven largely by the shift around that time toward quarterly results over long term sustainability, as I understand it.) And thus began a race to the bottom. |
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