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somenameforme an hour ago

It was quite overt before as well. There was a section in grant applications, broader impacts, where you literally had to describe how your research would, amongst other things "[broaden the] participation of underrepresented groups". [1] As if seeking out the best of the best to collaborate with, independent of their checkboxes, was somehow undesirable. It's the nature of relying on government programs and funding - you become subject to the whims of politicians.

[1] - https://www.nsf.gov/funding/information/dcl-broader-impacts/...

dgacmu 18 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

One of the explicit goals of the NSF is to train the next generation of scientists. Part of that is making sure that you're creating a rich pipeline of people who are going to do innovative things. Broadening participation is much more about things like getting more (usually younger) people from all walks of life interested in joining your field. Which is basically an unmitigated good -- first, the obvious advantage that having more people who want to be in a field is good for it from the perspective of choosing the best folks. And second, the less obvious but perhaps more important thing that people with different perspectives often end up thinking about problems differently. It's not nearly as helpful to have 1000 people all focused on chasing the same problems with the same toolbox of solutions as it is to have 1000 people focused on different problems with different ideas of how to approach them.

I say this as a professor at a top computer science department. I have _never_ felt limited in my ability to collaborate with the best folks in my area. Ever. I do! And it's great! And I also believe strongly it's important to make sure we are growing those next generations of amazing people, because the thing that makes research awesome is working with them.

mlazos 30 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ah, the ever present “nothing to see here” take. What this government is doing is worse than it’s ever been. At least before when you had your grant it wouldn’t be randomly cancelled at any time.

ipaddr 22 minutes ago | parent [-]

But it would/could be. That's the broader point before it was hidden now its not. Poltical entities need to accept the current state or rewrite rules that benefit all.

aqme28 31 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> "[broaden the] participation of underrepresented groups". [1] As if seeking out the best of the best to collaborate with... was somehow undesirable.

Are those mutually exclusive? I know that's a common argument, but it doesn't track to me. Finding the diamonds in the rough in underrepresented groups is part of finding the best of the best to collaborate with.

hvb2 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Government, and taxation/subsidies in general, have and always will be a tool to encourage one thing and discourage the other.

A lot of research won't be profitable for years to come or is even unlikely to be profitable at all, so you funding sources are limited. The government, having no profit motive, can encourage this kind of research by funding it. Typically the hope is that it'll lead to increased productivity or innovation down the line.

You don't have to be a statistician to see that not all groups of the populace are represented equally among scholars. If you want all viewpoints covered from you populace, wouldn't that mean you want to try and push for inclusion there? That doesn't mean everything has to be inclusive but you sure can incentivize it

rand_r 25 minutes ago | parent [-]

> all viewpoints covered from you populace

This is the core of the issue. We don’t actually want all viewpoints represented because that wouldn’t by itself produce any value.

You want someone to come up with the fundamental theorems of Calculus, linking the area of a curve with its anti-derivative, because that’s incredibly useful. Generically grabbing everyone’s view isn’t a competitive strategy. You need to be selective on things that are intrinsically useful and promote that.

ipaddr 18 minutes ago | parent [-]

But the research becomes how much coffee can someone drink before it's unhealthy type studies.

The study you mention can be founded with pen and paper. No expensive trials or heavy equipment or team needed.

kennywinker 25 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> As if seeking out the best of the best to collaborate with, independent of their checkboxes, was somehow undesirable

The best of the best involves people from underrepresented groups. These policies exist to counteract the cronyism and “doesn’t look like me”-ism inherent to the way people make choices. We know people don’t hire and collaborate with the best of the best, because when looking for the best they see it easiest in people with similar backgrounds and perspectives as themselves.

It’s a shame the culture war cooked your brain on this one.

parineum 10 minutes ago | parent [-]

> The best of the best involves people from underrepresented groups

If there are no martian biologists because of systemic discrimination, why would the best if the best biologists include a martian.

The argument defeats itself. I don't understand why people keep repeating this lie instead of the truth.

The only way this makes sense is if you think the only way someone can be inspired by someone else is if they look the same.

Spooky23 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

It’s much cleaner now. “How does your work financially benefit the principal or his cronies? Dude, are you buying a Dell?”