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Maarten88 4 hours ago

Any competitive sailor or foil-racer knows that the underwater surface has the least friction and best laminar flow when sanded with fine-grid sandpaper, around 1000 to 1500 grid.

It always surprised me that this was not true in air and airplane wings were supposedly best when glossy. So now it turns out that this is indeed not true, and airfoils also benefit from micro-roughness for lowest friction.

Now the surprising question to me is how is it possible that something so simple was not known in this very well-researched and well-funded field. It probably was known, just not by the paper-publishing researchers.

otterdude 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The core tenant of the paper is that roughness reduces drag IN the transition zone. A very small region of the total flow.

Thats the region between laminar and turbulent flow. Laminar flow is typically 5x less drag than turbulent, and will be encountered about a Reynolds number of 500K-1M (ratio of inertial flow to viscous flow).

Surfboards will have a Reynolds number of 10^7 which is entirely turbulent.

A Cessna aircraft will have a Reynolds number of 1-5x10^6.

mike_hock 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> core tenant

And Lady Mondegreen.

aeternum 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wonder how quickly airlines will adopt sanded/rough wings. It's also interesting that the efficiency of winglets were known for quite awhile but only somewhat recently have nearly all airliners adopted them.

rogerrogerr 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It’s probably operationally easier to keep surfaces smooth than to keep them a specific amount of roughness.

greggsy 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It’s presumably easier to keep a smooth surface clear of bugs, dust and ice too.

swasheck 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

yeah. what are the effects of too much roughness? may be safer and easier to maintain at smooth than at a specific roughness spec

stackghost 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Modifications to an approved type design, especially for commercial passenger aircraft, are an intensely bureaucratic and thus very expensive process. This is part of the reason why product cycles are long.

dilawar 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> and airfoils also benefit from micro-roughness for lowest friction.

I thought this was known to some extent that smooth surfaces are not always the best e.g. golf balls have dimples on them? No?

dilawar 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Never mind. I didn't read the article (paywalled) and someone in the comments below answered this exact point.

4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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colordrops 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah I'm pretty sure I remember reading something in a pop science magazine 20 or 30 years ago when MEMS nano structures were all the rage and how they were gonna use mass arrays of them on airplane wings to somehow increase flow

greggsy 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Not uncommon to hear bold claims with every new and emerging technology that isn’t well understood by the media or general public. The excitement over nanobots seems to have run its course (for now?). Blockchain managed to find its way into every market imaginable. Battery technologies have consistently delivered bold claims on an almost yearly cycle, but we have at least seen incremental improvements. AI is obviously the worst offender in the current timeline.