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scronkfinkle 2 hours ago

The title seems misleading, and reading the article explains the reason more clearly. There's nonsense OKR's and objectives at these companies to burn as many tokens as possible. It turns out that when you make a metric out of token usage, it unsurprisingly ends up becoming extremely expensive.

Inference is affordable, and you don't need a SOTA proprietary model to get a lot of use out of this technology. While you likely will still need a human engineer for quite a while longer, I don't agree that some number of humans + an LLM is going to be (or will ever remain) more expensive than just hiring more humans.

andwur 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They may as well have just said: Company institutes an OKR that the IT division must spend over $1000/day/developer (fictious number). Company is surprised when IT division is costing far more than it did before. Company increases this to $1500/day/developer to build a system to identify why this has happened.

I feel like vibe coding is less of an issue than vibe leadership at this point, and vibe leadership has nothing inherently to do with AI. These people are getting a vague feeling in their giblets, and then chasing it to the illogical conclusion no matter the cost or outcome.

juancb 21 minutes ago | parent [-]

I'm not sure that vibe leadership is a new thing and in fact may be a redundant term. I've worked for enough companies to get the sense that doggedly following vague feelings in their giblets is what leadership has been since 2008.

I won't deny that sometimes it works but there's much more coverage on when it does that when it fails which only serves to amplify the survivorship bias around it.

phyzix5761 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Goodhart's Law: When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.

olalonde 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Also, from the article it seems they just switched from one LLM (Claude Code) to another one (GitHub Copilot) rather than abandoning "AI"...

bostik 25 minutes ago | parent [-]

And in a way this feels like a good thing (from a corporate strategy perspective). If MS really wants to compete with Claude Code they will need to dogfood to have even a hope of ever catching up.

As much as I may dislike MS, their software or their practices I have to admit that they have pulled this off at least once before. Back in 2019/2020 their Teams web client was absolutely atrocious and utterly unusable on Linux. Sometime in 2023/2024 it had become quite tolerable and worked mostly better than Google Meet. (Screen sharing options in Teams suck to this day, though.)

repeekad 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

But aren’t the revenue numbers that have investors foaming at the teeth based on that “tokens as a metric” world? It can’t be both an explosive growth business and also only ROI with more disciplined spend.

Paradigma11 3 minutes ago | parent [-]

Why can't it be both?

alexwwang 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I am afraid that the TL would be uncomfortable if they have no human team members but only agents, which means they have no space to pass the bulk and have to take responsibilities for the business results.

leecommamichael 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I kind of doubt they ever needed the number of humans they have, but I am genuinely open to being wrong about that.

baron816 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The media seems hellbent on torching AI. My news feeds are nothing but stories about the evils of data centers, how useless AI is, and how much everyone hates it.

ian_j_butler 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The media is hellbent on torching it, and on propping it up against all reason too, both things can be true. HN is no exception. It's another noisy room problem where the distortion in dialogue is rapidly leading us into a distorted reality. https://thenoisyroom.com/

For people who are actually interested in reality, participation in the mainstream discourse either way is a strategic error. The best thing to do is to check out from all of it, actually read the literature and listen to the technical heros who are working at the edge, and stop reading the pro/anti marketing noise from the media or corporate PR

boca_honey 37 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> and listen to the technical heros who are working at the edge

that's terrible advice. those guys dedicate their lives to the advancement of this field. there's no way you will get a tempered, balanced answer from them. none of them will gravitate towards "yeah, maybe we should stop or slow down for a while".

parineum an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> listen to the technical heros who are working at the edge

Sounds like a great way to get the rose colored view.

alfiedotwtf 25 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

From AI companies’ perspective, it’s free press… why would they even think about stopping people talking about it!

This about it like this - if you were a CEO of a company that ONLY made garden gnomes, would you rather a) nobody ever talk about garden gnomes, or b) garden gnomes be in the news every day, people protesting because they’re losing their jobs because of garden gnomes, companies making billions and collectively investing trillions to making garden gnomes, people starting startups to support the garden gnomes pipeline, consumer electronics prices having huge variance because of the demand to support garden gnomes etc.

When you’re one of the largest garden gnomes companies in the world, you want garden gnomes to saturate the zeitgeist

NoMoreNicksLeft 2 minutes ago | parent [-]

Seems like a strategy that could backfire, if Congress passes legislation outlawing the manufacture, sale, distribution, possession, and admiration for garden gnomes. PT Barnum only thought there was not such thing as bad publicity because he was pulling up the stakes and leaving town before anyone woke up.

sysguest 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

well datacenters should go near power plants or cool mountain areas

for ML training loads, it just doesn't make sense to build them near residential areas for few millisecs

cicko 31 minutes ago | parent [-]

> or cool mountain areas

Absolutely f'ing not

verisimi an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

OKR: Objectives and Key Results